... to think it slightly odd that so many of my school mum friends are hung up about secondary schools already, when their kids are only 5!

[sandyballs]

It seems to be the sole topic of conversation lately - how good/bad the local comp is, how extra tuition will be needed for the local grammar etc etc.

The kids are 5/6 years old! Let them be kids!

I'm sure our parents never had all this school angst!

Not in school and I don't swear. You see my point is I'm middle class. I would always avoid upper class boarding school type places. You don't get the racial etc mix you get in the private academic schools.

I read a business book, whose title escapes me, about American society at the turn of the century. Apparently in the US in 2000 there were 53 social classes, making different lifestyle choices (jobs, homes, cars, children's upbringing etc).

So, being conservative, we might hazard a guess that there are 15 or 20 social classes in the UK - with different aspirations.

Xenia embodies one social class. That's fine - just as long as she realises that not everyone wants what she does.

Xenia - I would say you are definitely aspiring upper middle class.

I don't know what I am. I've shown on the thread how for some parents yes planning education at age 5 and indeed from birth is often done and that has certain results for children which not planning doesn't have.

But I don't think by any means the school is the most important factor with children at all. Things like how you treat them, where you live, friends etc etc all play a part.

Don't have time to read all this as it's so long, but have just noticed a comment a little bit down. I think it is a sweeping generalisation to say that the best provision for SN is in the private sector, it really depends on the type of SN. From what I can see there are a number of specialist schools for children with dyslexia in the private sector. However for children with dyspraxia as my DD has, the private sector schools that I have spoken to so far have been quite lacking in provision for dyspraxia when not associated with dyslexia. One lady in an admissions department asked whether Hypermobility (excess flexibility in joints) meant that DD found it hard to be quiet and moved around a lot. I will never forget the relief in her voice when I explained that it simply meant that her joints were overly mobile.

Then I found I had to explain what dyspraxia was in the first place to another school, which strangely enough put me off somewhat. I have no experience of AS, ADHD so can't comment on these .

Absolutely, social class is a whole package of elements - as Bourdieu or Veblen illustrated years ago.

crap about it not being so important if kid is to join family business- one of my mentees was dependant on this, had been established since he was born- after ignoring school for past 5 years, his Dad announced early retirement as he turned 16, Dad has sold contracts on.

never, ever rely on these things.

I worry about DS1 as the local comp has a bad record with SN kids. I know ds2 will fit in anywhere- a wondrous skill imo. But e've never yet settled anywhere for more than 3.5 years so far too many opportunities for us to move first.

I wouldn't send any girls I had to the school I went to because the emphasis was too academic - the year I finished it was the top school in the state (the boys at our brother school got in trouble for being beaten by a bunch of "giggling school girls".

We could do any extra-curricular activity we wanted, but it still wasn't a holistic approach.

If you weren't good enough academically you had to undertake a "lower" program that didn't count towards the school score.

Also because it was so expensive only a very narrow range of girls went there - the fathers were all doctors, lawyers, etc etc etc. Mostly white, with a couple of Asians, noone from the sub-continent.

Very restrictive socially if you didn't want to hang out with "snobs" all the time.

DH went to a catholic boarding school so he went to some dances with some of the girls from my school. After he met me and found out what school I went to he was very surprised because everyone else he had met that went there was so different to me....

I think it was a great school if you were brilliant academically, but if you were only mediocre, another school with a more rounded approach would be alot better....

We are not going to enrol our boys at the brother school....even though my dad went there...

god, no, i am a saint (i got my sainthood today !), so already saving up the max. per year in his child trust fund ftse 100 tracker for his future university fees (i reckon they will all be completely private in 15 years time when he has to apply) ! very dull, i know, i don't talk about it at the school gates (he doesn't go to school yet) but i can't see what is wrong in thinking or even talking about children's future ed. esp. here in the uk where we are generally at the bottom of the league compared to say europe or japan

Oh wanted to add too...

There was a saying going around while I was at school that if you wanted to marry a doctor you went to x-school.

If you wanted to BE a doctor you went to y-school (yes the one I went to).

That's the sort of pressure, and expectation we all had going there...going onto higher education was a given...none of my friends didn't go on to university (not that is an ultimate measure of success in life though!)

RE the getting into Uni- my sisters Ex went to decent private, got into Bristol- lasted three months, completely unable academically. It turned out he had been completely coached through the A-levels he had taken, but that didn't help him at all in RL.

Now he has a little business doing something he lovves, but related to his family so frankly would have happened anyhow.

My otehr sister however married his mate (I almost amrried the third of them- what an escape! Phew! ), and he uses his degree every day- but there's no way he would have got in to the course without lots of one to oe help: it was what he needed.

So I guess what I am saying is that the best for each is different. It takes the love of a parent to suss that out, but you'd be better equipped waiting utnil after 5, unless there's a huge waiting list- and even then once they're on the list, be open to new possibilities.

If I had the cash i would moce DS1 sharpish, and ds2 when he completes Infants next year- but not to the same school. DS3 is a differeing case, he needs 1 - 1 so state is best for him.

Completely agree.

SIL and her brothers and sister all went to private schools (not state school - I am from Oz and there private schools are the "public" ones here) and I think her DH did too, but they recognise that for their DS1 his needs will be greatest met at the local state high school....

Xenia did you go to a private school?

I mentioned on another thread about my DPs sister and the lengths they went to to send the kid to Private school. It involved the husband breaking the law such was the pressure. I have also read of stories where women have turned to prostitution to when a financial crisis was encountered to continue paying the fees.

With DP's sister they are going to extraordinary lengths to maintain the private schooling and it also involves bleeding grandparents dry. I will never ever understand the fear people have of state schooling ot go to these lengths and for what. As it happens the kids are not polite, very self absorbed, and very grabby. They may well be in the 50% going ot university you mention but I expect some sort of a meltdown as the family is soooo dysfunctional. Also hoards of money was/is spent on extra tuition.

How many of our greatest writers, musicians, artists, actors or comediennes come from private schooling?

Xenia you are really getting my goat up now. I live in a very small rural village in cambs and it enhances my childs childhood and understand of where things come from. We have some wonderful schools around her because beleive it or now us country bumpkins can and do drive and there is a school bus service

If you choose to bring your children up in a smog filled city where your private schools have to manufacture perfect lawns and lakes then that its your choice but I would rather my children grew up with the real thing and learn the ways of life in the country as well as being highly academic!

"Amplethorpe"???? Come on Xenia, 'fess up. You're not what you're pretending to be. You make too many mistakes and betray too much ignorance to be well educated.

GM, I think it was Anna more than me talking about locations below and someone else said in some bits of the country you have one school to choose from not 10 etc. People commute from Cambridge to London every day for work without a problem but moving a whole family somewhere remote has implications (like that Mulsim girl up to the remote Scottish place) which has pros and cons to it. That is all I was saying. Just

Amplethorpe - what have I said wrong about it? Did I spell it wrong?

Anyway you see on the thread differences, parents saving for the baby's university education, others not thinking that far ahead. I think it's a bit unfair to come out with random examples of such and such a boy went to private school and then couldn't cope with univesrity. If you take just about any majro instituteion in the UK those who do well there (even the cabinet) have mostly been to private schools and good univesrities so clearly if you hope for those kinds of jobs for your children (and you might instead hate and despise them of course) then a private education will equip them well.

Parents who make ridiculous sacrifices are not wise. I remember someone who stole from his boarding school where he worked because I suspect he was wanting to keep up with a lifestyle as a teacher he couldn't afford whereas all the parents could. Perhaps I should escape with the children to the island and we can learn through play on the sands.

At the risk of repeating myself as often as Xenia, I shall once more inform people that both my boys have reached PhD level in their chosen fields of history and psychology. Both were educated in the state system from start to finish.

My dd's have been/will attend an excellent state secondary school. It's all-inclusive in its intake; some parents are unemployed, some are politcians and others are at the top of the tree of major companies.

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of local children who are educated privately and, oddly enough, they all seem to be the sort of children who Xenia would deem 'thick'.

Sd, not sure what you meant by that. Yes, many state schools are good. In some areas there won't be a decent private school or parents use state grammars and if their chidlren fail for that they pay for private schools but not in all areas and many chidlren do really well in private schools. Private schools on the whole do a really good job for this country. That doesn't mean parents can't find good state schools. I never said that at all.

Did you ever see the episode of Spendaholics where the boy's mother did 3 jobs and had no furniture (except for garden plastic chairs) so that her DS could go to private school.

It was very sad as he tried to explain to her how bad he felt when other kids houses had wings and his had plastic furniture. He became a spendaholic as he never wanted to live in poverty again. He said he felt worthless .

"I think it's a bit unfair to come out with random examples of such and such a boy went to private school and then couldn't cope with univesrity."

The majority of my privately educated friends dropped out of university at one stage or other because they weren't up to it.

The fact is that for private school pupils university is their next logical step, whether they are temperamentally suited to it or not.

State schooling has a more sink-or-swim effect; (in my experience) the lack of a rigourously enforced timetable and a high pupil-teacher ratio means that if you don't have good time management and independent learning skills (precisely the things you need at uni) you're stuffed.

Having said that, in the final years of school I was slightly surprised to find the same friends (who were no more intelligent than me) getting strings of A's in their exams. So private school kids seem to have the edge when it comes to passing exams.

prostitution ? seriously ? omg ! christ there are some seriously dysfunctional families out there ! so a child goes to a private school then later finds out his mother sold her body for him to get into Oxbridge ! nice !

okay, i wouldn't do that (esp. not now with my religious title !) but i would make sure that i have enough money to send ds to a good private school if required. i say IF because i won't know for a few more years whether my local state schools are crap or not. they may be fanstastic in which case happy for ds to go to one despite my own private schooling. my father worked bloody hard all his life so i could get a decent ed. i will do the same for ds, though i won't break the law or sell my body for it !

It has already been pointed out, Xenia, that possibly you mean Ampleforth, so yes, could be called a mis-spelling.

Also lol at Stonyhurts. Plenty of corporal punishment there??

Your attitude to state education is laughably Daily Mail. My dd goes to a state comprehensive where she is learning Chinese. She could choose to do Latin, which is also on offer at other state comprehensives I could name (but shan't).
You make the kind of wild sweeping generalisations that I hope dd will be educated not to make.

not all public/independent school kids get into top universities nor are they all very bright. some are more "nice but dim". quite a few in my private schools. we had the very very bright and the not so bright. it was CONNECTIONS and mummy/daddy knowing people in the City (stockbroker sorts) that got them the jobs, not always good brains or good grades. one could say rather the same about those in Govt. many got to where they are by pulling strings not beacuse they have brains, if the current cabinet is anything to go by.

all this threads make me so sad and angry!!

for the first time since I moved here I wish we were in the country I come from!

I just hope that this is not a reflection of how the next 18 years of ours and DC life will be!

What country do you come from Pippi, and what is it about this thread that makes you sad/angry?