... to think it slightly odd that so many of my school mum friends are hung up about secondary schools already, when their kids are only 5!

[sandyballs]

It seems to be the sole topic of conversation lately - how good/bad the local comp is, how extra tuition will be needed for the local grammar etc etc.

The kids are 5/6 years old! Let them be kids!

I'm sure our parents never had all this school angst!

I never felt crippled by my education. May be it depends on the school. My children's schools are full of parents who can barely afford the fees, putting every penny earned in the corner shop or pharmacy into the school fees fund. I don't get any impression they are educated amongst the rich. The parents are no different from those whose children locally go to Watford Grammar. May be it's the kind of school then - somie very snobby posh schools which often end up not being that academic and perhaps the less clever children there all they have in their favour is thinking they're better than anyone else are like that and the kind of grammar type, most children in clothes bought from the second hand uniform sale etc are not like that.

On choice of where to live that is fascinating. People call me say planning to move to some gorgeous rural area. One issue though is will the chidlren get jobs and opportunities there and what are the choices and schools like. Poor areas of rural deprivation may actually damage children long term so where you choose to live and bring up your children also has as much an impact on them as what school you choose.

Ormirian, can relate to what you are saying.
Private school crushed me too.

Would never send my children to a private school.

There is as much variety in private schools as there are in state schools, and I find people who make a selection of school based on whether it is private or state, rather than on whether it is the best fit for their children rather narrow minded tbh. Of course, that does rather rely on being able to access both types.

These discussions often become polarised between state and private when surely it is finding the right school that is paramount rather than what sector it is in.

I find it laughable too, that people who have had a bad experience of schooling in the private sector assume that all schools in that sector are the same. Equally those that always assume that private school are better than state schools surprise me too!

You are quite right, however my experience was so negative that it will play a big part in the choices i make.

But I do think on average most private schools are better htan most state schools. Of course some tiny little private schools set up in someone's house which haven't been around 5 minutes can be worse than your local state primary but over all they tend to be better. But the thread was about when you bother or think about secondary education. Some people plan their lives. I've always had year if not life plans etc since I was 11 years old. Others bundle on from year to year, crisis to crisis and couldn't tell you what they'll be doing in August 2007 never mind in 2 years' time. People just differ. Some like that planning and others find it fettering.

Also, how do you know which school is best suited to your child,before they attend?
My parents had best intentions for me, and thought sending me to private school was right.

Load of reasons.One might be religion.

I think that back in the late 60's private schools were generally different to today. Much more elitism perhaps?. Many people sent their kids there simply because they would never in a million years contemplate the state sector - rather than because the school was good or because the local state school was poor. Ours was actually quite good but it wouldn't have occurred to my father to use it.

I do not agree with Xenia that most private schools are better than state schools. My opinion of private schools (esp for primary age pupils) is heavily influenced by George Orwell's A Clergyman's Daughter, ie showing off to the parents is the main driving force.
Teaching kids to think comes a poor second. Instilling a love of learning doesn't come into it much at all.

Elasticwoman - where on earth are private schools like that

Certainly where we live there are any number of wonderful private primary schools which instil a huge love of learning and have a very interesting mix of both children and families.

50% of pupils at university come from private schools. 7% of children go to private schools. Clearly private schools are better. If they weren't better over 40% of parents wouldn't have said they would go private if they could afford it. But the other 93% of British children in state schools obviously do fine, most of them. I still think my generalisation holds good. Better in every way really better grounds, people, teaching, facilities, hobbies, clubs, school trips, better uniforms, standard of teaching. I can't really think of anything that is worse. I suppose you don't need to learn how to protect yourself from being stabbed although you probably learn fencing anyway.

Who has the data to draw a conclusion as to whether either state or private schools are "better"? Better at what? At getting great exam results, at improving children's life chances, at discipline?

All depends on the child, the parents, and the type of opportunities parents wish and can afford to give their children.

It's a silly debate.

Wouldn't like to name names Soapbox, but I knew other kids who went to them when I was a child in S E London. In secondary school I was educated alongside kids who had come up from private school and was shocked by their ignorance and lack of skills even though they had been hothoused through the 11+.

Also knew kids who went to them in Oxfordshire when I lived there more recently.

And I agree with Anna. My evidence is purely anecdotal of course.

Hasn't any one else ever read A Clergyman's Daughter?

Xenia - if 7% of British children go to private schools and 42% go to university... how can 50% of students at university come from private schools???

And I went to school abroad and was just terrified at the ignorance of everything outside the UK of the students I met at university when I returned to England aged 19.

You learn different things in different places. If you absolutely want to be part of the English upper middle class, then you had better go to a good English private school and to one of the universities where the upper middle classes huddle. And choose a professional career path.

But not everyone wants to be part of that social class. And thank goodness, because society needs all kinds of people and skills to function.

Anna888, she's probably referring purely to Oxbridge (although actually those figures are wrong even just for Oxford and Cambridge). Perhaps in her world, no other universities exist!!.

The statistics for the proportion of students from private schools at the "best" universities need to be interprested with care in any event. Many public school students get in to Oxbridge and the like to read things like Classics, Theology etc. Subjects which are a rarity in the state sector.

It is indeed a silly debate Anna - but it is even sillier to close one's mind off to one sector of potential schools based on not a great deal of evidence!

I think as parents we should decide what we think are the important factors for our children's education (and by that I mean education in the widest sense - not just schooling) and choose accordingly.

I can't remember what I said. I think the figures are about 7% of children in the K go to private school although at sixth form level I think it's 10%. I believe at Oxford and Cambridge this year about half the children are from state schools.

I would say better in most ways. Obviously if your main criterion is teaching the Catholic faith even there you might find Amplethorpe or St Mary's - www.st-marys-ascot.co.uk/b.html?1173281515 give you a better Catholic education in the private sector than the state sector. The best music school - Chetham's is private. I can't really think of any advantages of state schools . If you have special needs the very best provision is in the private sector - hence Ruth Kelly using it for her son etc etc on every single basis you can mention and this makes sense. If you're a capitalist it's not obvious that where you pay things are better. It's common sense.

chocolatedot - perhaps, but I suspect she's just got her facts wrong.

Xenia - have you not understood?

NOT EVERYONE ASPIRES TO BE PART OF THE UPPER MIDDLE PROFESSIONAL CLASS

Sorry to shout but you seem to be deaf (blind?).

Ampleforth?

Obviously if you want your childern to go school with children with your own regional accent, keep it, learn to swear, adopt the morals of the majority there and in particular if you're very left wing and even if you could afford fees would not as on principle you think it's only where middle class chidlren are educated with children from very poor homes and can tolerate children being excluded (or more often not when they should be) atmosphere of low level disruption in most classes etc etc then you might choose one of the least good comprehensives but huge numbers of families in the UK put loads of effort into getting chidlren into the right secondary which usually means exactly what I pay for - a grammar type school where the other children tend to behave.

In fact if you pay you can send them to schools like Summerhill where you don't have to attend lectures or whatever. And some parents don't choose to send their children to school either in the UK. What is clear is that most parents love their chidlren and want the bst for them. What is also clear is choices you can make at 5 (and indeed the luck of your genetics and home you're born into) have a huge impact on your future life.

Amplethorpe - well I don't believe in boarding schools but if the child is a bit thick and you don't mind them going there and probably not getting very good A levels and you want the Catholic ethos then y9ou do that. I think Stonyhurts is better but that if you really wanted boarding you'd be better at Eton which has hired a Catholic chaplain and has been getting boys who previously would have gone to those boys catholic boarding schools which are doing so badly on the league tables.