Oxbridge degrees - worth it?

[Pombearsandnaiceham]

What do you think? Would be interested to hear your thoughts :)

I guess it's worth it, if either uni is right for you, but it's a decision that shouldn't be based on name alone. No point going somewhere on the prestige, if it isn't somewhere you'll be happy, and potentially won't thrive because of it.

I applied to, and was accepted by HYP (Harvard, Yale, Princeton) over here in the States, but I turned all three down. After I received all my offers, and made further college visits, I realized my heart was elsewhere. I could have attended one of HYP for the name, but decided to go where I felt like I needed to be (still a highly ranked college), and I have no regrets.

NB: A few comments on here, about the benefits of having an Oxbridge degree on your CV, makes me wonder how many wonderfully bright, talented, and ambitious graduates from other excellent universities have missed out on jobs simply because they didn't go to the right place. Not everyone can get into Oxbridge, and I'm sure there are plenty of those are rejected, who are just as bright and talented as those who get places. It's a shame they are put at a potential disadvantage, just because they were one of the unlucky ones.

I don't think NOT getting into an Oxbridge college will end your opportunities in life, but going is a serious leg up. I know I was offered interviews/work experience on the strength of my very ordinary Oxford 2.1.

Far more importantly, it gave me confidence in myself while forcing me to shed a lot of completely unjustified self-belief. I was very arrogant having been an extremely bright student throughout school (like, national prize-winning level). At Oxford I was absolutely average and I had to work like mad to stay at that level. It taught me not to be lazy. It taught me to argue and to think. I was surrounded by clever, confident people who were, almost all, kind and understanding and a bit nerdy about their own subject. It was a bit best-of-times, worst-of-times because it was so very intense, but it was formative in a way that my masters at a highly regarded European university was not.

I went to a small but wealthy college and it was the most wonderful experience with minus numbers of hooray henrys and a great mix of students. I'm really sorry for anyone who hated Oxford but I must stress it is a tiny, tiny minority of students who don't thrive there. Oxford isn't interested in aggregating results to show what a good university it is; the pressure is mostly self-imposed. Not everyone likes the tutorial system (although it's a lot less stressful and fairer than seminars, where one male student will often hog the whole discussion and shy people are at a disadvantage. The facilities are amazing. The college system offers incredible peer support through the JCR as well as college 'parenting' schemes and social opportunities. You have contact with tutors in a way that will highlight your issues and weaknesses - which may not be comfortable, but stops people from getting lost in a big university environment. The college system means that so much depends on your college and how it tackles issues for students who need more support either through disability or through mental health problems or issues with assault. Most of them are extremely aware and focused on welfare of all kinds. On a recent visit I found my college had adapted ground floor rooms and bathrooms for disabled use and equipped a library area with extensive resources for disabled users. One of my best friends there was severely dyslexic and had extra support (and this was twenty years ago).

I'd love to see more BAME students applying to Oxford. There were only a handful at my college (including two of the most confident, successful men I've ever met). It is a place where BAME students can thrive, but it seems self-perpetuating that those young people won't feel comfortable applying to somewhere they aren't sure they'll be welcome. The whole Rhodes scandal hasn't helped. My own view is that the university has a very, very long history and many of its richest endowments came from quite appalling people all the way back to Elizabethan times and earlier. I don't imagine Rhodes intended his scholarships to go to BAME students; all the more reason to take them up, I'd have said, and wear the name with pride.

Went to Oxford in late 1990s. Had some good, some not so good times, I think the less good times were more about what was going on in my own head at a difficult stage in life than Oxford itself.
I'm largely a SAHM now, but I do freelance editing. I feel massively lucky to have a reasonably paid, interesting, flexible line of work. I am able to do this because i got a job in publishing when I graduated 20 years ago. And I wouldn't have got the publishing job without the Oxford degree.
Will I encourage my kids to apply? Not particularly, I don't think, but I wouldn't discourage them either.

Like I said, there's not as much funding for support due to disability issues in some colleges.

In Oxford, at least, the Disability Advisory Service (forgive me if that's not quite accurate) is a university-wide service, not funded individually by colleges. So anyone from any college should be able to access the same support. There is a disabilities tutor in each college. Anyone thinking about Oxford and feeling put off by Tamale, please contact the DAS first - I would hope you'd find it reassuring.

In my line of work (science and engineering) Oxbridge degrees aren't a differentiator. They can be seen as shorthand for 'a clever teenager who took a competitive but traditional educational route'. Likely to be smart and competent in roles where 'academic' thinking is valued. But individuals doing good quality courses from any institution would be valued. I especially love a cv where someone with excellent A levels has chosen a high quality non Russell group course. I like the independence of thinking that can indicate.

Most of my career qualities such as street smarts, innovation, ability to get on and lead diverse groups from international backgrounds, business nous and resilience are highly prized. I always shortlist those with open university or other non traditional higher routes (eg apprenticeships or technical routes to HE).

I suspect Oxbridge degrees are more valued in very traditional and hierarchical structured professions ( law, medicine, civil service?).

I've not read the whole thread but I went to Cambridge and dropped out after two terms with horrendous mental health issues that I'm still recovering from. My self esteem and confidence weren't great before I went so it's unfair to blame it completely but I ended up suicidal, and though I'm a million times better now my self esteem is still really rubbish and I do think Cambridge and the dropping out has a role to play in that. I've actually just graduated with a first from my local uni having finally plucked up the courage to return to education (had vowed I wouldn't). I'm so glad I did because I absolutely loved it and now intend to start a masters. I'm not sure if my first from the local uni will be as beneficial for the future but I can definitely say that I don't feel shortchanged at all by my experience. The education felt just as good as at Cambridge and all the academic staff seemed to be far more engaged with us. I might be looking back with biased eyes but there's definitely more to life than Oxbridge!

Hi all, interesting reading all the comments, I have skimmed read most of them.

My son is at Oxford, going into year 3, (Medicine.) His school actively discouraged him and told him he was not good enough to apply. They also said that most applicants don't get a place in their first year of applying. I encouraged him to apply and he was offered places at Oxford, Nottingham and Newcastle (a complete reject at Bristol without an interview). His college only have 6 medics in his year and it was very competitive, it still is in that they rank you in your year. The first year he passed all his exams but came in the 2nd half of the ranking, this did not go down well with him at all but then realised that the ranking was not the be all and end all. His 2nd year he did much better but the first two years do not count towards your degree.

He has had ups and downs, suffered from depression but received so much help from his tutor it was incredible. She was always available and totally supported him. I think that and friends helped him get out of it. He went thru a phase of thinking he should not be there, was not good enough for Oxford.
He has played for the university and gained two half blues, he has more contact with his sports colleagues than perhaps the medics in his year. The first two years he lived in halls and this year has decided to live out.

Overall so far he is glad he applied and you cannot imagine how proud we are of him.

He will stay in years 4-6 in Oxford for his clinic years.

I think it is a tremendous achievement and even if he decides not to carry on with medicine, Oxford on his CV will hopefully get him an interview with whatever he decides to do.
If your daughter is thinking of applying get in touch and she can have a chat with him.

I think that degrees from UCL etc command the same level of respect as an Oxbridge one these days.

I find this university snobbery quite depressing.

DD is looking into medicine. It is my understanding that, since medical degrees are conferred by the GMC, it doesn't really matter where you study it.

pollymere You're not wrong there. But it's only really a particular handful of RG colleges that do. Not all hold the same weight. UCL certainly, Kings yes, Imperial most definitely as does LSE. But don't forget that Oxbridge is also part of the RG.
Years ago it might have mattered less as not everyone had a degree but these days literally everyone and his adopted pony has a degree in all sorts. Names still matter, at least they certainly do when you're a 21yr old trying to get your first foot on the corporate ladder.

I work in an industry where an oxbridge degree is considered standard.
However, because of this I have found a lot of oxbridge applicants into roles working with me to be a very poor fit as they 'expect' to walk into the job. I know they worked hard to get in and are normally bright but frequently they have been arrogant, a trait that really grates on me.
I therefore am put off interviewing them which is wrong, I know.
My last hire didn't have a degree and is awesome.
I also don't have a degree and have been very successful in my career.
My son is at a non RG uni and is having the time of his life.
I think it can work for some people but you need to fit into the uni to get the best.

Oxford was a beautiful, beautiful place to spend 3+ years, and I made some fabulous friends - some of them still my besties 30 years later. Also inhabited by quite a number of public school pillocks types, generally not my type, with a few exceptions. I'm sure you still have to be able to put up with that, even if you're not a Brideshead fantasist. Teaching was variable in quality back then - some tutors top of their field & thrilling, some tired & stale, & the tutor responsible for our moral wellbeing had reputedly been chucked out of a mixed college for sexual misdemeanour, before ours opened its doors to women. So if a candidate is really serious about their subject & has the results to back it up, they should look to the reputation of the specific tutors at their college. Job-wise, many of my friends did very well for themselves, financially and in terms of gaining interesting, socially-valued, top jobs. Myself, I did ok - interesting work on a reasonable wage, with slow career progression, in civil service type jobs where Oxford grads like myself were two-a-penny. Then I became a mother/housewife and trying to get back into the workplace was really hard - am now on low-paid 0-hrs with the local Council. Oxford no longer any real advantage in career terms, but do I regret it? Hell, no!

LoniceraJaponica I'd say that in courses such as medicine it matters less. Medicine is for lack of a better term the truest vocational course. If your dd didn't end up using her medical degree to be a doctor then she'd still be in a good position to land on her feet in whatever else she chose to do. I'd argue this is different from Law which is relatively vocational - a degree in Law from Oxbridge would stand you a higher chance of landing a training contract than a Law degree from Newcastle - which mind you is still a RG uni.

bobbyboy for Medicine, the first two years at Oxford do however count towards your overall ranking within the med school and therefore your prospects for your first job (DS1 is a sixth year medic). And six in a college is actually quite a sizeable cohort, though that's not to say the whole process isn't competitive since it obviously is. In terms of future prospects, Oxford medics generally do better at the test thing which goes into the mix with ranking to determine the offers of a F1 job, so to that extent the med school does matter. I've no idea why Oxford do significantly better than students at other school, it seems quite odd.

Vladmirs the Bar is still overwhelmingly - and I mean seriously overwhelmingly - Oxbridge. You need to be properly outstanding to be offered a pupillage from any other uni. Fact!

goodbyestranger That's pretty much what I was saying...

Same actually with training contracts for the Magic Circle firms, if that's your thing.

I was talking about the London Bar in my post above. The provincial Bar is different but then so is the type of case on the whole, and the money.

You use the term 'higher chance'. That doesn't even begin to describe the situation at the London Bar!

I think the term 'higher chance' covers it appropriately. It is what it is. You'd have a higher chance coming from Oxbridge than you would from Newcastle. Exactly what I said.

I'm from Oxbridge myself and went to many a recruitment talk by firms in the MG before I decided it just wasn't for me and went off to piss about in marketing and advertising.
I can't speak in absolutes because quite frankly there will be a Newcastle grad at some point that might land a gig at Linklaters or something... who knows... all I said is that if you have Oxbridge on your CV it will give you a higher chance of landing that interview in the first place. I personally think having an Oxbridge degree is losing it's wow-factor but it still does carry a lot of weight. I doubt I'd have got my first job after graduating which paid £45k had it not been for my Cambridge degree - but that was mannnnny years ago.

Not much point quarrelling if you think 'higher chance' cuts it. I can assure you it doesn't. Very, very significantly higher gives a more accurate steer.

That's an absolutely up to date assessment too Vlad, with DD1 having recently completed her training contract at a MC firm and DD3 about to start a £50 or £60k pupillage (can't remember the exact amount). Very little has changed since my day in terms of Oxbridge, except for the number of successful female entrants.

except for the number of successful female entrants.

I hope times have changed in that respect goodbyestranger. In my day women were out achieving the men but looking back at my cohort the men ended up in much higher positions. Of course not every woman wanted a high flying career and many were just happy with the rigorous study of their subject but that said, I fail to see why that is - I went to Cambridge specifically because I wanted to be a high flier. I made no bones about it. Yes I was academic and interested in the world around me but I wouldn't have put myself through all that to end up as a Tesco cashier. Sorry if that offends others but I can't understand Oxbridge grads that just want to be mediocre in life. That's more my issue I suppose.

Just thought id chip in to tell you that i studied law at a standard red-brick after being rejected from Oxbridge.

I still trained and qualified at a magic circle law firm and am still here years later. There isn't any higher to go as a solicitor so i have the same job i would have aspired to had i been to Oxbridge.

Moral: You don't need an Oxbridge degree to succeed.

Also i should add that i obviously work with a LOT of Oxbridge graduates. Unfortunately i agree with the poster above who said that arrogance is a factor with many of them. It's a shame really as they're so bright and often very nice people overall, but the sheer arrogance and even 20 years later, the continuous mentioning of their Oxbridge degree can be overwhelming.