Oxbridge degrees - worth it?

[Pombearsandnaiceham]

What do you think? Would be interested to hear your thoughts :)

For balance, I was at Oxford two years after Yoko. Within my friends, I know of one sufferer of CFS/ME who received excellent support, including the support that she needed to fight for a formal diagnosis, and another who received support during a serious psychotic episode despite the fact that college weren't told of his schizophrenia diagnosis before he came up.

I think that this discussion has mostly demonstrated that the collegiate system leads to wildly inconsistent policies and practices, making it essential to research your choice of college very carefully before applying.

Why do you ask so briefly?
Can't you be bothered to expand?
Are you writing an article?

I would counsel against going there unless you've thoroughly researched the courses and are absolutely sure they suit your needs and aspirations. Chat to admissions tutors etc., get a feel for a few of the colleges.

YokoReturns This is rather interesting. My view is the opposite. I'd urge every school-leaver to consider Oxbridge. In my honest opinion a degree in potato studies from Oxford or Cambridge is worth a great deal more than a degree in Quantum Psychics from Hull University or where-ever.
It's fucking tough to get into Oxbridge and the tutorial system is second to none. Employers value it greatly. The name still carries a lot of weight.
This of course becomes less significant as one ages and advances in their career but as a starting block a degree from Oxbridge can really work wonders. I know anecdote is not the saviour of data but I recall a few friends who'd graduated in degrees which weren't really about anything then doing Law conversions feeling anxious that they were up against fellow Oxbridge grads for trainee positions in the magic circle. Those who'd actually studied law at a non-reputable University had fuck all chance against someone that'd done Medieval studies at Oxbridge.

Tamale, sorry it's been so tough.

But it wasn't like that when I was up a generation ago, all such incidents were taken extremely seriously indeed. I was in what had been a traditional women's college.

Secondly, just had experience of support for learning disability, which was less good in my day. Have been completely blown away by it.

Genuine question to Oxbridge grads - did you ever encounter a student with learning disabilities in your time there?

Yes, I did.

@VladmirsPoutine what do you class as a learning disability?

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, a friend at college had very severe dyslexia, and couldn't write by hand in any meaningful way. He got extensive support (as I detailed before) and came out with a first. Not sure if you would class this as such however?

I think they get your cv put on the 'interview' pile instead of the 'bin' pile, but after that it's a level playing field.

vlad I met a number of people with either undiagnosed or poorly-supported ASD/personality disorders at Oxford. One guy spent many nights in a friend's room (Welfare Rep) obsessing over the fact that he couldn't understand why people had different opinions to him. He just couldn't see it and it was driving him to the edge of a breakdown. There was no-one to refer him to. Another just disappeared after the first term, having shut himself in his room and avoided everyone including his tutors.

I wasn't aware that anyone I knew had dyslexia or a learning disability.

If you have a disability, are from a BAME background, come from a working class background or go through any illness Oxbridge is not the place for you.

Don't presume to speak for all of us. I'm from a working class background and can assure you it most certainly was the place for me.

That's not to say there are no problems. The complaints you make about sexual assault minimisation are ones I've heard before. Not while I was there, but from people who've been there since. I believe them, as I believe you. I felt incredibly safe there but a lot goes on trust, and you only need one person to start abusing that and you have a massive problem.

You should not, however, lump all the groups you mentioned in together. The sexual assault minimisation you mention is likely to be more of an issue for wealthy women students than it is for working class men. Being white working class, any racism that might be there wasn't something I had to deal with. Etc etc.

In answer to the learning difficulties question, I had one friend with dyspraxia and one with dyslexia (who did get kicked out, to be fair). I also had a friend who was a grad when I was an undergrad who was incredibly dyslexic, had a huge amount of help because he could barely read and write- may be the same person mentioned above actually. He was a bit famous, had gone to Cambridge a few years early, and clearly the environment suited him very well. One of the cleverest people I've ever met, and when he sent me a good luck card before my exams it looked like a 5 year old had written it. His LDs were pretty severe I think.

Actually no, looking, it won't be the same person as I wasn't at Somerville. That would be two colleges giving exemplary support to two people with very severe dyslexia, then. Good to know.

Similar to one previous poster, I graduated from Cambridge to find trouble getting work. I put that down to a combination of factors - it was right in the credit crunch and recession, I had obligations that meant I could only work in Birmingham, I was looking for work not directly related to my degree, I had almost no work experience, and I'd focussed on exams in my final term not making connections for employment.

I don't regret going to Cambridge one bit, but anyone expecting an automatic Oxbridge degree > top career pathway may be in for a rude awakening.

As far as people's backgrounds go, at my college at least it was just not a topic of discussion. Nobody cared what school anyone had been to, we cared about what we were studying and doing now. Most colleges are (or were a decade ago) about a 50:50 split between state and private educated. Newer colleges like Robinson and Churchill somewhat more state, along with King's which is the most applied for, a few colleges more private.

As far as support for minorities goes, or disabilities, I'm in no position to talk. I remember there being few black students and even fewer south Asian ones. Quite a few east Asian though.

My DP 's workplace has just employed a recently graduated Oxbridge grad. She's going to be wiping bottoms and cleaning rooms for 8.12 an hour. What a flippin waste of a degree.

If you have a disability, are from a BAME background, come from a working class background or go through any illness Oxbridge is not the place for you.
In my year at least 12 students left my state comprehensive to go to either Oxford or Cambridge with a significant number of us going to other top universities e.g. Durham, UCL, LSE, Russell group ones.

Yes there's more privately educated people there than your local poly, but that would be the same at other top unis as well.

maddiemookins16mum only if you agree with the idea that education is primarily for work. Personally I reject that idea. Education to me is about becoming a better person, and our worth is not determined by the size of our pay packets.

There was some diversity but not representative diversity, if that makes sense. Hardly any black students there, I remember there were just two black undergrads in my college at one point. Other minority groups with very strong representation. I hadn't had the opportunity to meet many Jewish people before going, for example, but there were 3 in my year of 90. And strong East Asian representation: 3 Singaporean and 2 Japanese students.

I remember reading when I was there that around 12% of Oxford students identified as ethnic minority, which sounded about right and was more than the UK population at the time (obviously universities are usually more international than the population as a whole). But there were many more of some groups than others.

bananafish81 I mean standard definition of a learning disability. In other words not physical and 'invisible' if you like. At Cambridge I didn't encounter any. That said the only 2 men I was friends with back then with ASD were 'rain man' types which don't represent the whole.

The point I'm making is that, if someone wants to get het up about the lack of representation in Oxbridge then there's a very fair argument about the exclusion of those with learning disabilities. Being mixed race I also know I was in a minority but that's a different story. Most of my contemporaries were white middle/upper class grammar/public school educated.

What's St John's Oxford like in terms of the hooray Henry factor?

Personally I'd be gutted safariboot to put my DD (a few years off yet, but still) through Oxbridge (she wants to study law), and say 5 years later after all that effort and cost she worked in a minimum wage job.
There are some fab unis out there (Leeds being my fave). Oxbridge is purely for namesake.

John's is richer than God. Phenomenally wealthy. Very decent accommodation throughout your degree if you want it. Not especially rah, especially compared to Balliol over the road.

Thanks

yeahrightwhatever St John's is the richest college and gives their students free laptops apparently.

But maddie it would be the same cost (and effort) to you for your dd to go to Leeds as to Oxford, so why would it make a difference to what she did afterwards?

It's not just for the sake of the name. It's a quite different style of degree. Not one that appeals to everyone, but one that works very well for many.

So far I have two children at university - one at Oxford, loving it and getting lots of support for learning difficulties that have only come to light since she's been there. Other one at an RG - decided against trying for Oxbridge as for her it was all about the details of the course and they didn't offer what she wanted.

It's "worth it" if you will get what you want out of it. I don't personally think it's worth compromising on a degree to go there.

I was state school educated (albeit grammar school in a very mc area). Didn't find it at all stressful or unwelcoming and didn't really work super hard either, until just before finals

I would suggest your experience as a state school student wasn't typical, those of us who went from state comps in working class areas were not only a minority within a minority, but had a very different experience to those who went to what were private schools in all but name.

@VladmirsPoutine question was honestly one of genuine ignorance - I don't know what the standard definition of learning disabilities is these days.

My peer group at Oxford was relatively ethnically diverse but to my knowledge apart from friends with dyslexia, I'm not aware of anyone who had a learning disability

But the same goes for my friends and colleagues who didn't go to Oxbridge

I'm not aware of anyone I've worked with who had a learning disability - and I'm a contractor and have worked in many different companies in many many teams. I'm very often the only Oxbridge graduate in my team / department, so it's not just an Oxbridge thing.

The lack of representation of people with learning disabilities at Oxford, in my experience, was no different to my experience in the workplace in everywhere I've worked, with the exception of dyslexia. It could be that there are tonnes of people with hidden learning disabilities that I'm not aware of.

There are many ways that Oxford is horrifically unrepresentative - the number of black male students is woefully low, for example. But in my experience the representation of people with learning disabilities isn't radically different to most / all companies I've worked with

This isn't getting any of them off the hook! But I don't think Oxford is particularly worthy of being singled out in this regard