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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that either way I will be letting one of my DC down?

102 replies

CherrySour · 04/08/2017 20:52

I have two DD's aged 8 & 6.

We suspect the eldest may have ASD, she's got some MH issues and really struggles to make friends. However, she has two good friends on our street, a pair of sisters aged 7 & 4. I'm really pleased that she has at least these friendships and I have done my best to encourage this, they are at our house a lot and I have taken them on several day trips with us.

However, they don't seem to get along with my youngest. I think dd1 instigates a lot of this as she doesn't like her sister much but over the last few months, I would say it's descended into bullying territory. They appear to enjoy excluding dd2 from their games and she is apparently not allowed in their house. As they spend more time at our house than dd1 spends at theirs, this was happening a lot. It got to the point that dd2 was in tears every time they came over. I would stipulate that they were nice to her as a minimum or they would have to go home, at times this duties but more often than not, I would eventually have to send them home. Sometimes, if DD has something they want, like sweets, they will be nice to her until they run out (poor dd2 is very generous with her things and I think she also gives them things so they will like her).

But then last week, both my DDs went over to their house to play. DD2 came home a short while later in tears and I couldn't get her to tell me what was wrong. Eventually she told me that all three girls had been hitting her in their bedroom and the mother hadn't done anything about it/didn't realise what was going on. Dd2 is very sensitive and didn't want to tell me as she thought it might make them dislike her more. I feel absolutely gutted for her - it must have been quite frightening and upsetting being trapped in a stranger house being hit by three other girls one of them her own sister!

I don't know the mother well to talk to her about it. I've now said these girls are not welcome in my house. The thing is, I don't know whether to put an end to dd1's friendship with them as then she will have nobody (dd2 has other friends on the street). It is dd1's birthday soon and these girls are the only ones invited to her birthday trip. I'm obviously dealing with DD1 over this behaviour but i can't exactly exclude my own DD from our home, whereas I can with these girls and so far, my telling them off hasn't stopped the unkind behaviour.

How would you handle this situation? I feel like either way I'm letting one of my DDs down.

OP posts:
Sirzy · 04/08/2017 22:34

Sometimes a friendship isn't a real friendship and is more one side taking advantage of the weaknesses of the other.

Ds is autistic and has a lot of trouble making friends. Last year he made a friend at school and I was over the moon, however it soon became apparent that it wasn't a healthy friendship and in a lot of ways it was taking advantage of how vulnerable DS was. With school we have now decided it's not a friendship to encourage and actually it reached a point where it was necessary to discourage it.

SpartacusSaiman · 04/08/2017 22:34

Was dd1 punished at all?

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 04/08/2017 22:35

So it's ok for DD2 to be devastated by being beaten up?

LovingLola · 04/08/2017 22:39

I understand it is difficult but it sounds like the bullies are using your eldest

It sounds like the elder dd is the bully. And the 7 and 4 year olds are following her lead.

Witchend · 04/08/2017 22:40

I think this is hard and can totally see the Op's dilemma.

Thing is if the "friends" were 8yo and 6yo and wanting to play with the 7yo, I can see how having a 4yo tagging on would be a problem, and the older sister taking it out on the younger one because they're frustrated at having the younger one always there. They'd still be wrong to behave like that, but I'd be much more inclined to say keep the younger one out of the way.

But that's not the situation here.
There is no reason why the 7yo shouldn't get on as well with the 6yo as the 8yo. Which leads me to suspect that unfortunately it's dd1 who is instigating it. Sad
And I think saying the 6yo plays with the 4yo may be fine depending on the 6yo/4yo but that can be quite an age gap so may well not be particularly good.

Out of interest, if you took your older one away, have the "friends" played nicely with dd2?

If it was just that situation, then I'd probably say just cool the friendship and take them out a few times when they'd be playing. Ds had a point where a friend was coming round too regularly and would sit on the doorstep if I said ds couldn't come out (!) and, I didn't want to upset him, but what I did was always had something we were "just" going out to. So he'd knock on the door, and I'd answer it and say that I was sorry, but we were just off to XXX. It just broke the cycle of coming round all the time.

But you're saying that she's being mean on her own, so actually you need to deal with that as a issue too.

Sympathy is with both of them, because I suspect part of the problem is dd1 sees these as "her" friends and thinks that dd2 has plenty of friends so shouldn't have to share hers. So it's jealousy in some ways.

But as a parent it's also easy to fall into that trap: DD1 will find life hard so let her get away with more. And actually it still isn't fair on dd2 who will feel that you favour/like dd1 more.

Smellbellina · 04/08/2017 22:41

I wouldn't give a damn about the friends, they are not your issue. I would have a massive issue with DD1 treating her sister, and potentially others, in that way.

Original poster
CherrySour · 04/08/2017 22:41

Sorry, keep missing points. I've tried encouraging them all to play together and pairing them but they still wind up ganging up on dd2. Ironically, it was dd2 who struck up the friendship first and introduced dd1 to them. Dd2 is much more sociable and makes friends quite easily. She's also happy to share as when these sisters were away on holiday, she was taking dd1 to visit her friend on the street. I think part of it is that dd1 is quite possessive of these girls and doesn't want to share them with dd2. I'm wary about blaming these girls too much as dd1 is bloody awful to dd2 most of the time but I am continually working with her on that as much as I can without professional support. I suppose that's why I haven't been to see the mum.

I live on quite a large estate and there are kids of all ages going round in their little friendship groups. There are lots of fallings out between parents too so I'm wary of stirring anything up as I hate confrontation. I've already made enemies of one of my immediate neighbours because he took exception to me telling his son off for throwing rocks at dd2.

OP posts:
Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 04/08/2017 22:42

I wouldn't allow dd1 to be horrible to DD2. You're the parent to both your girls. You can't let dd2 be treated like this because dd1 has issues

Welshrainbow · 04/08/2017 22:44

I don't think the issue is with these friends of your dd1, it reads more to me that DD1 is allowed to bully her sister with no punishment, I wouldn't ban them from your house but I would ground your DD1. By next week those sisters will probably be playing happily with DD2. For the birthday outing allow DD2 to invite a friend and only take one of the sisters with you instead.

NataliaOsipova · 04/08/2017 22:47

If it isn't prying, can I ask what the issues are between your DDs? Why doesn't DD1 like her younger sister?

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 04/08/2017 22:47

You sound afraid of dd1. Afraid to discipline her.

MarthasHarbour · 04/08/2017 22:48

Sounds like DD2 is having a tough time all round. Being bullied by your neighbour, her sister, and also being bullied by friends she introduced her sister to.

Your OP was about letting one of your DDs down. Please read your posts from DD2s perspective. You have your answer.

notgivingin789 · 04/08/2017 22:50

Remember too that our desire for children with ASD to have friends doesn't always match our children's experience of what friendship is. These aren't great role models, they're encouraging her to behave badly to her sister

This ! With sugar on top.

Original poster
CherrySour · 04/08/2017 22:55

Yes, definitely think that dd1 is the main issue but I'm trying my best to deal with that. She doesnt really respond to punishment as such so instead I'm trying to teach her to be empathetic.

This morning she was being really nasty to dd2 so I started talking to her about self esteem and how it's really important to feel good about yourself but if people keep saying horrible things to you, it can damage your self esteem and you start to believe the bad things about yourself. I also said it takes 10 nice things to cancel out one horrible thing. Dd1 has very low self esteem herself. I could visibly see in her face the penny dropping.

I've also spoken at length with dd2 about how she shouldn't take her sister's insults to heart as she's very unhappy and wants us to feel unhappy too since she doesn't know what to do with her feelings. Dd1 has very regular meltdowns and I get called every name under the sun on a daily basis so DD2 sees this and the way I handle it (by largely ignoring it).

Dd1 doesn't think she's doing anything wrong by being nasty to dd2. She thinks she deserves it for being annoying. I've no idea how to manage this kind of behaviour.

Just wanted to ask the question about what to do about these two girls as either way I have to deal with dd1 but not sure of its right to let her continue this friendship and just keep dd2 away from them as much as possible.

OP posts:
Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 04/08/2017 22:57

You can't minimise dd2 distress he way you are. That's not fair.

Your poor dd2 is being let down massively here.

Original poster
CherrySour · 04/08/2017 22:59

Also, I won't exclude dd2 from the birthday trip (if we go ahead). My saying I could possibly arrange a play date was in response to a pp making that suggestion.

The issues between dd1 & 2 are that dd1 just doesn't like her, finds her annoying and she also has this belief that I favour dd2. To be fair, sometimes dd2 will give as good as she gets but only if DD1 is in a calm phase and never if she is in meltdown or close to meltdown.

OP posts:
Original poster
CherrySour · 04/08/2017 23:00

I'm not trying to minimise - I totally get it just don't know how to handle things for the best.

OP posts:
NataliaOsipova · 04/08/2017 23:00

I would stop the friendship, to be honest. Even if DD1 is the primary instigator of the nastiness towards her sister, it sounds like these other girls have joined in with gusto, meaning they probably aren't positive role models for your DD1 in any case. It sounds like you've given them opportunities before to change their behaviour, which they haven't taken. So I'd nip it in the bud once and for all, explaining to both your girls why that is. (Sounds like you do a brilliant job of calmly talking things through already).

littletwofeet · 04/08/2017 23:08

but not sure of its right to let her continue this friendship and just keep dd2 away from them as much as possible.

It's not a healthy friendship for your DD1. Allowing her to continue this is sending the message to her that you do condone this behaviour. Even if your words are saying 'be nice to DD2' your actions are that it's ok to continue to be friends with people who took part in hitting her sister (regardless of who instigated it, nicer children would have stuck up for DD2/told their mum/told DD1 to stop/took DD2 out the room or back home to you if she was upset). These girls didn't and you don't want that influence on DD1 especially if she has no other friends and she is struggling with being nice to DD2.

I know it must be heartbreaking that DD1 has got no other friends but her being friends with these girls is just masking the problem in the short term and probably making things worse in the long term.

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 04/08/2017 23:11

So you're going to exclude your dd2 in her own home and her own place of safety ?

I'm really affected by this. How can you not want to stand with your own child? The one who is the victim here is dd2. Not dd1

CorbynsBumFlannel · 04/08/2017 23:14

If they play nicely with your dd1 then I wouldn't ban them from your home. But I would let them know that because of their behaviour (all 3 of them) they will need to be supervised in the small downstairs area as you don't trust them to be kind to dd2. After a while you can ask them if they think they can be sensible and if they say yes you can allow them the chance to play unsupervised again on the condition that if there is any unkindness to your youngest at all they will lose that privilege.

crypticbow08 · 04/08/2017 23:15

OP you really sound like you are struggling at the minute. Keep pushing for professional help.
I would stop dd1 from playing with the girls at your house, and she would be grounded so unable to play outside with them for some time.
I would definitely speak to the girls parents, it does not have to be confrontational, just make them aware of the problem.
I would try and spend time doing activities with both your dds to try and improve their relationship.
Do you have house rules and consequences?
A kindness jar could work as a visible aid to improve dd1s behaviour/attitude towards dd2.

CorbynsBumFlannel · 04/08/2017 23:16

I wouldn't worry too much about the birthday. Cinema and a meal they'll be supervised the whole time - not much scope for bullying. Sit between your dd2 and the others in the cinema if necessary.

GetOutOfMYGarden · 04/08/2017 23:24

Poor DD2, honestly.

I would not be willing to allow these children to play in my house. It's DD2's place of safety before it is DD1's place to bring guests. Additionally I'd be concerned about whether these girls were being rude to DD1 as well, since DD1 is less likely to say.

emmyrose2000 · 04/08/2017 23:30

It sounds like DD2 is going to forever be the sacrificial lamb to "compensate" for her sister's issues.

Yes, it sucks for DD1 that she has MH issues and may also have ASD. But that is not DD2's fault (or DD1's either), so there is zero excuse for DD2 being treated like a second class citizen to appease whatever is going on with DD1.

There's absolutely no way I'd allow the other girls to come in the birthday treat. DD2 has a right to feel safe when she is with her family. DD1 can't be allowed to get away with her bullying and still have nice treats (ie. having her so-called friends along). The neighbour girls certainly don't deserve a treat after the way they've behaved.