To think that either way I will be letting one of my DC down?

[CherrySour]

I have two DD's aged 8 & 6.

We suspect the eldest may have ASD, she's got some MH issues and really struggles to make friends. However, she has two good friends on our street, a pair of sisters aged 7 & 4. I'm really pleased that she has at least these friendships and I have done my best to encourage this, they are at our house a lot and I have taken them on several day trips with us.

However, they don't seem to get along with my youngest. I think dd1 instigates a lot of this as she doesn't like her sister much but over the last few months, I would say it's descended into bullying territory. They appear to enjoy excluding dd2 from their games and she is apparently not allowed in their house. As they spend more time at our house than dd1 spends at theirs, this was happening a lot. It got to the point that dd2 was in tears every time they came over. I would stipulate that they were nice to her as a minimum or they would have to go home, at times this duties but more often than not, I would eventually have to send them home. Sometimes, if DD has something they want, like sweets, they will be nice to her until they run out (poor dd2 is very generous with her things and I think she also gives them things so they will like her).

But then last week, both my DDs went over to their house to play. DD2 came home a short while later in tears and I couldn't get her to tell me what was wrong. Eventually she told me that all three girls had been hitting her in their bedroom and the mother hadn't done anything about it/didn't realise what was going on. Dd2 is very sensitive and didn't want to tell me as she thought it might make them dislike her more. I feel absolutely gutted for her - it must have been quite frightening and upsetting being trapped in a stranger house being hit by three other girls one of them her own sister!

I don't know the mother well to talk to her about it. I've now said these girls are not welcome in my house. The thing is, I don't know whether to put an end to dd1's friendship with them as then she will have nobody (dd2 has other friends on the street). It is dd1's birthday soon and these girls are the only ones invited to her birthday trip. I'm obviously dealing with DD1 over this behaviour but i can't exactly exclude my own DD from our home, whereas I can with these girls and so far, my telling them off hasn't stopped the unkind behaviour.

How would you handle this situation? I feel like either way I'm letting one of my DDs down.

"I could possibly send dd2 off somewhere else during DD's birthday outing but she's really looking forward to it"
I honestly cannot believe that you would even consider this.

This situation seems so clear cut, Op have you got no bottom line? You are enabling your dd1 to bully he younger sister AND punishing dd2 for being beaten up by her sister and neighbour kids.

This sounds so outlandish to me that I could almost think this isn't real but I won't as that's not nice note allowed. Benefit of doubt from me OP, if this is a real story you need to wake up, stop minimising what your dd1 is doing deal with it get expert advice regarding this situation and the challenges of ASD for the family dynamic.

I feel incredibly sorry for your dd2 in this situation.

Get some help OP, this thread won't cut it.

Urubu

Where did I blame dd2 ?

I never justified the hitting but it seems odd to force anyone to spend time with someone they don't like just because they happen to be related. The hitting is not acceptable. Does dd2 have any bruises? Were they actually hitting her hard or just messing around?

If she doesn't want her at her Bday then she shouldn't have to have her there.

I would go and tell their parents. And ban them from the house and ban dd1 from playing with them and it would be a long time I had them in the house.

I'd also ground dd1 and be having strong words with her

I would be stopping the friendship, disciplining dd1 and cancelling the birthday outing altogether!

I am quite upset at this post tbh.

I feel like that too. I should caveat that by saying that I don't know whether I'm actually the worst person to comment; I have girls of a similar age, but they are genuinely best pals. I know that I (and they) are very lucky and I wonder if this distorts my perspective on this sort of thing. The tagging along point? Well - if one was invited on a play date to a friend's house, the other wouldn't (necessarily) go as well. They obviously both have their own friends from their respective school years. But when the invitation was reciprocated, we would see it as the friend being invited to "their" house and there'd be no exclusion. Any hint of it and I wouldn't have that friend back again.

In your shoes, OP? I'd lay down the law to DD1 about acceptable behaviour towards her sister and I'd give the other girls as wide a berth as possible. DD2 has done nothing wrong and should never feel uncomfortable or excluded in her own home.

And by fuck would I be taking them on a birthday trip you are totally betraying your younger child and she will remain remember.

You're choosing to allow her to be assaulted and let them away with it.

Grow a fucking backbone and stick up for your child. Which is also your dd1 because if she continues to hit the shit out of other people she is going to end up in real bother. Someone else won't let it go. She's 8. How'd you fancy the police at the door in 2 years?

Hmm, I would be tempted to put a stop to this friendship altogether. I realise that you want to encourage DD1 to have friendships, but this one sounds toxic all round. There will be other friends. I'd rather not have my child involved in a friendship group where bullying another child is seen as acceptable, as things will almost always get worse. Perhaps stopping this relationship will make your DD1 think about the fact that her actions have consequences and that sisters are far more important.

My DS1 has ASD and social inclusion issues. There is no way I would be encouraging this, with or without the bullying of your DD2

Your post reads that you are blinded by gratitude that these bullies sisters want to be your DD1s friends.

I feel so sad for your DD2. She is basically having to be bullied to accommodate a toxic friendship for her DSis

I forsee your DD2 on the Stately Homes thread in 15 years time.

How have you delt with DD1 being an abusive bully to your child?

Truth is, some really horrible kids make 'friends' with more vulnerable children in order to bully them. Vulnerable kids are easy to control and less likely to stand up for themselves. They've probably targeted your elder kid as much as the younger one, and worse, driven a wedge between her and her little sister.

My son has friends, 8 and 9 year old boys. They think his little sister is fun and they are kind to her, always greet her and let her join in. Because they are nice children and they are good friends, and more importantly, because my son adores her and there is literally no way he would ever, ever tolerate a bad word said of her. I would judge kids who are cruel to others very harshly and consider them bad influences on the elder one.

Your youngest needs protecting now, both from the bullying of these girls and from their attempts to poison your eldest daughter against her younger sibling. If your elder DD has these issues, she needs to be kept away from children who only seek to manipulate her.

"cancelling the birthday outing altogether!"
Yes actually thats what i would do too. The excluding and the manipulating and taking advantage of dd2 (go to her for sweets) are totally bad enough and a big deal but the hitting is assault.

I cannot imagine a mother who worries about letting one of her dds down doing this, it doesn't add up

You don't need to know the mother to talk to her about this.

You go round. You knock on the door and you don't leave until you have to,the mother what her kids did to your youngest.

Seriously. Don't you care about your younger child? Is she to be sacrificed to let DD1 have friends? That shouldn't be. At all.

Dd1 needs disciplined and what about their dad? What does he think of your daughter's terrible behaviour?

I'd have her doing chores and no birthday party treat at all and I'd make sure she knew exactly why it was cancelled.

Have you talked to your older daughter about this?

If the friendship continues, you really should get to know the other children's parents.

Have you talked to your older daughter about this?

If the friendship continues, you really should get to know the other children's parents.

Sorry, didn't abandon the thread - DD2 has come down with a temperature suddenly so I've been sorting her out.

Yes, this is real. I've posted about dd1 before. I'm trying to work with her around the way she treats her sister. It's really tough. We've only just managed to get professionals involved after a three year battle and it's frustratingly slow. I also don't feel like they are listening to me so I'm having to manage her behaviour alone.

I feel incredibly sorry for my youngest and agree that her being bullied in her own home is totally unacceptable.

I really appreciate the replies as its giving me some outside perspectives. I have been dealing with some very extreme behaviour from DD1 and it's so difficult to keep perspective. To the PP that said it, yes, I guess I do feel grateful that these two girls like her so much as otherwise she'd have zero friends. She doesn't get invited to parties or play dates. She comes home from school crying that nobody likes her.

It's so difficult to balance both my DD's needs.

I would ban the two girls from your home as a start. And tell DD1 that because they hit DD2 then she is not allowed to play with them and you will be keeping her in the house/garden/in your sight for the foreseeable future as her behaviour is so unacceptable.

I'm confused that you've not considered encouraging dd1 to play with the older one and dd2 playing with the younger one with your supervision.
The recent events show there is a horrible dynamic going on between dd1 and the sisters and your younger dd. Your older dd may need some help in knowing appropriate interactions but thats all the more reason you don't leave her to it with other children.
And definitely do not leave dd2 out of the birthday celebrations.

Poor dd2 but honestly do you really want dd1 to be friends with girls that think it's ok to bully someone let alone their own sister. I would distance dd1 from the pair and try to get her involved in an activity such as dancing, music so she can meet people outside of school.

Your post reads that you are blinded by gratitude that these bullies sisters want to be your DD1s friends.

I feel so sad for your DD2. She is basically having to be bullied to accommodate a toxic friendship for her DSis

Agree completely with this.

It must be really hard if your DD1 is upset she has no friends. By not stopping this friendship though, you are teaching DD1 that in order to be friends, you gang up with them and pick on someone else. It's really not good for DD1 to have this dynamic as her only friendship.

To the PP that said it, yes, I guess I do feel grateful that these two girls like her so much as otherwise she'd have zero friends. She doesn't get invited to parties or play dates. She comes home from school crying that nobody likes her.

OP that was me. The above described my DS1 also. However I also have a DS2. And there is no way I would allow him to be bullied to enable a toxic relationship with DS1.

Seriously, there are other ways you can get DD1 to mix with other children. You have 2 children with different needs. This is what you (and i) Signed up to when creating DS2

Do you really not get it?

Can you try and instigate the older 2 playing together separate to the younger two?

if my ds1 joined in or stood by and watch his brother get hurt by 2 of his friends ds1 wouldn't be having a day out! wouldn't care how excited he was.
I certainly wouldn't be sending ds2 away cos ds1's friends don't approve. they can do one. but that just my opinion - each to their own.

I would keep the sisters away from your DDs. Don't age match them FFS.

Other activities: Brownies, Cubs, drama, sport, music, dancing, etc etc

Little twofer you also quoted me and I wholeheartedly agree with your following comment.

I have every empathy with dealing with an ASD child with social issues. But I feel so upset for your DD2.

Yes, I get it, just not sure how to put it into practice.

The girls have been banned from my house and DD1 knows this. Discipline is a funny thing with her - she doesn't care usually. I know she would be devastated if I said she couldn't play with these girls though. And if I cancelled her birthday outing. She's having a really horrible time at the moment and self harms so I'm quite wary about upsetting her too much (yes, I know that makes me a shit parent but I've pretty much been left to deal with this kind of stuff on my own and I'm constantly worried I'll push her over the edge).

For the PP that asked, I'm separated from their dad and they don't currently see him so no idea what he thinks. I doubt he'd care - he more or less leaves the child rearing to me and hasn't engaged with any of the professionals involved so far.

You really can't let your sadness over DD1s lack of friends cloud your vision.

DD1 needs to understand she did wrong and that it cannot be repeated and will not be tolerated.

Dd2 needs to understand the same but also that she is protected by you. Honestly, how do you think she'll feel when she next sees those other girls? And she must be v confused about how/why her own sister could do that to her.

You need to limit the damage now. Take control of this.

I too think it's time to severe the friendship with them. There will be other friends somewhere for DD1 to make and far better for her if she makes friends who can demonstrate and encourage her to play nicely. Regardless of who is the instigator of the hitting, why would you want to support a friendship like that for your DD1 where it's ok for them to be violent and violent to someone younger and who is your sister.

DD1 needs to show exemplary behaviour (you need to decide what that looks like and tell her what you expect) to keep her birthday trip and the other girls should be uninvited by letting their parents know the situation. You just need to say "I need to create some space between my girls and yours as I'm aware that there was some hitting between the 3 of them and DD2. I am working on disciplining DD1 for this and whilst we figure out how to handle her behaviour and she takes responsibility for her actions, she won't be socializing with your two".

You don't need to specify how long (indefinitely) or make accusations about gervgirjs but you must act to show your DDs what happens when something like this takes place.

Good luck op, not easy, but important...