To think the 'information' the midwife gave me is almost propaganda?

[ethelfleda]

Recently had 24 week appointment. This is our first. Midwife asked if I had thought about feeding yet. I said I plan on breastfeeding. I say 'plan' because (as with everything else baby related) I am trying to keep an open mind as from what I hear, things don't always go according to plan! So I will try hard to breastfeed but I won't beat myself up if it doesn't work out for us.
She handed me a 20 odd page pamphlet thing and said it contained useful information on caring for a new born.

I started to read it today thinking it would be basic NHS info on how to feed, wind and change your baby etc. It was actually 20 odd pages of info telling me basically that if i don't breastfeed, my baby is more likely to develop cancer (as am I) as well as be admitted to hospital in their first year of life etc etc among other very scary statistics.
The language used was shocking IMO! And seemingly designed to make women who don't/can't breastfeed feel awful! Has anyone else had this information handed to them and thought it was way over the top??

"It's all biased, and correlation not causation. Formula feeding is exactly the same as breastfeeding, no noticeable differences."

Why do you think the NHS makes a special case for breastfeeding, when they wouldn't base recommendations for other important aspects of health on obviously extremely poor quality evidence?

It's very odd. It's like people believe that there are all these health professionals out there who've been required to read the evidence,so must know it's all bollocks, but are all pretending otherwise.

"But yes they did judge. And tut. And roll their eyes."

Fair enough. They were incredibly rude. But, as they say-hard cases make bad law.

Even when you adopt, it doesn't change. I couldn't have breastfed even if it'd been my biological child due to medications I'm on, but the HV kept having sly digs about how much harder it would be with my twins because they were bottlefed, and how they'd have more health issues growing up. Think I reported her in the end.

Oh FGS. This is so ridiculous. There are various reasons babies cannot be breastfed; from cleft palate to galactosaemia. What the hell do you want from your HCPs? More documents and information listing all and any potential barriers to successful breastfeeding?

At the end of the day, you're given information on why breastmilk is better for mother and baby. If you can't breastfeed for WHATEVER reason, there are luckily very good alternatives in the form of formula.

Your experience Mychild is like none I've ever encountered and I know a bit about this world. I'm loathe to call bullshit, but I wonder how much of this has been built up and exaggerated in your head.

OK, you couldn't breastfeed. It was down to an issue or condition with your baby. It's not the end of the world. I'm not sure what 'warning' you would have liked at your antenatal appointments!

Absolutely aberteand. And their behaviour contributes massively to my pnd. And all I am trying to ask is for a review of practice so that anyone in a similar situation in future is treated better than I was.

This thread (and all the likewise threads about BF vs FF) where judgements are flying about (all indirectly of course!) make me laugh because how many mums of teenagers get together and conversation goes like that:
'My Josh is a nightmare at the moment. He is lazy, his room is a mess, he doesn't work hard enough at school and ends up with grades I know he can do much better, he is off school with colds all the time and his attitude is just shocking' and somehow, it never continues with 'can I ask, did you FF because if you did, I think you got your answer, I BF and have none of these issues'.

Instead, the response usually goes something like 'Oh Gosh I know exactly what you mean, my Tommy is just as bad. His eating habits are horrendous and he is hardly talking to me any longer'. I feel so much better to know that it's not just him and all teenagers are the same, I was starting to wonder if it was something I'd done wrong when he was a baby.

Come on mums, there is much more worry to come in the years to come than whether any of it will be cause by FF vs BF!

And, frankly, I think it's a shame when people decide in advance not to even try. Because I bet they've got better things to do with their money than line the pockets of the formula manufacturers.

Why do you think the NHS makes a special case for breastfeeding, when they wouldn't base recommendations for other important aspects of health on obviously extremely poor quality evidence?
Look into what Public Health is all about. The NHS cares about the health of the nation first, individual health second. So as an organisation, the NHS will promote BF, as individual though, they will promote what they think is best for mum and baby.

Saying that, many themselves don't understand the difference unfortunately.

I did try fwiw. I was feeding my baby perfectly well. My baby was feeding well. I had plenty of milk.

I do think the reason it's so difficult for people like me is that the NHS looks at a societal level but for us it's personal. Individual.

"And yes, the information on BF should be given, as I have said. But it should come with a line in it that says something to the effect of breast is Best but not always."

That would be a good idea - but it would need to provide statistics so that women had a reasonable idea of how common it is for women to be completely unable to breastfeed in any capacity.

I'm just not sure how they would arrive at that figure. In Norway 98% of women leave hospital breastfeeding, and 95% are still breastfeeding at 4 weeks. Would it be reasonable to say then that at least 95% of women are able to breastfeed in some capacity? Would you be happy for this statistic to be included in breastfeeding information? It's the best we've got - this is what's possible in a developed country where women are well supported with breastfeeding. The leaflet could point out that initiation and continuation of breastfeeding are much lower than this in the UK.

And, frankly, I think it's a shame when people decide in advance not to even try. Because I bet they've got better things to do with their money than line the pockets of the formula manufacturers

Exactly.

Yes, I know you did, Mychild. But can you accept that your situation is incredibly unusual?

"Look into what Public Health is all about. The NHS cares about the health of the nation first, individual health second."

I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Are you making a case for women not to be given full health information about breastfeeding on the basis that individual women may not want to or be able to breastfeed?

Like we shouldn't give information about the risks of obesity to women who are hypothyroid, or compulsive eaters?

'And, frankly, I think it's a shame when people decide in advance not to even try.'

God there it is again, it's 'a shame' A pp said it 'was sad'. It's neither. it's just a different choice. If people 'line the pockets of formula makers' by choosing something then so what.

I don't know that a % is helpful. I left hospital BF so it wouldn't have helped me.

What about something like there are times when for reasons out of your control breast is not best. Should you fall into that category please be aware your HV can provide additional support.

WHERE POSSIBLE

Bertrand I know my situation is unusual but there are a lot of people in numbers terms advised not to BF. they may be a small % but they are large in numbers terms and some of the approaches from the literature and HCPs aren't helpful to us

Maybe something like the every child an individual approach could work?

"God there it is again, it's 'a shame' A pp said it 'was sad'. It's neither. it's just a different choice. If people 'line the pockets of formula makers' by choosing something then so what."

Right. So expressing any opinion about bf at all is unacceptable?

'Like we shouldn't give information about the risks of obesity to women who are hypothyroid, or compulsive eaters'

Yes, give the information, share it. Just use terminology that doesn't imply people aren't giving their dc the best start in life that they can. Just bf is...ff is....

And really try not use words like 'sad' or say 'It's a shame people don't try' Unless you don't mind sounding like a patronising twat. Mind some people just can't help it.

"And really try not use words like 'sad' or say 'It's a shame people don't try' Unless you don't mind sounding like a patronising twat. Mind some people just can't help it."

Not even "I think it's a shame......"? No opinions allowed?

'So expressing any opinion about bf at all is unacceptable?'

Saying 'It's a shame people don't try' is unacceptable imo yes. It's not a 'shame'. I've no issue with supplying the stats and the evidence in a balanced way.

Just try to keep your twee disapproval out of it.

But anything that suggests there are benefits to breastfeeding is considered to be propaganda and biased. I don't see how anyone could say anything about the "facts" of breastfeeding without being told they're being biased.

I wish I'd been strong enough to cut the patronising twats off with a hard glare but I wasn't.

If you say "it's a shame" and then someone says the completely genuine reason, how would you feel Bertrand? Would you feel bad for making an assumption and making them feel awful?

It's crap that some hospital staff aren't more sensitive and don't have a better bedside manner. But to change that you'd need lots more training and funding. Because a few people and it is very few cannot breastfeed is not a reason to derail a very important public health campaign. Fed is not best. It just isn't. We have heaps and heaps of data to support the benefits of breastfeeding.

You have to differentiate from the population level data though and the individual. Is it "better" in terms of health outcomes for a bay to breastfeed? Absolutely. But it may not be best for an individual mother or baby. If the mother finds it very stressful then it's not what's best. Or if the mother is one of the very tiny proportion of women who truly can't breastfeed then of course it's not best for her, as an individual. But in our quest to protect the feelings of a small percentage of the population we have managed as a society to have the lowest breastfeeding rate in th world. Of course we need to a public health campaign and it needs to contain all the facts.

More obviously needs to be done to make bf normalised. More balanced information needs to be available without pushing guilt. If posters stop saying it's 'sad', 'it's shame people don't try', then people wouldn't get so irritated.

I don't know why some decide to share such snooty opinions. For example, I don't think it's a 'shame' there's so many overweight people about. I recognise there's far more to it than 'just eat less' and me being a patronising twat doesn't help anyone.

I wonder whether posters struggle with 'It's not what you say, it's the way you say it' irl too?