To think the 'information' the midwife gave me is almost propaganda?

[ethelfleda]

Recently had 24 week appointment. This is our first. Midwife asked if I had thought about feeding yet. I said I plan on breastfeeding. I say 'plan' because (as with everything else baby related) I am trying to keep an open mind as from what I hear, things don't always go according to plan! So I will try hard to breastfeed but I won't beat myself up if it doesn't work out for us.
She handed me a 20 odd page pamphlet thing and said it contained useful information on caring for a new born.

I started to read it today thinking it would be basic NHS info on how to feed, wind and change your baby etc. It was actually 20 odd pages of info telling me basically that if i don't breastfeed, my baby is more likely to develop cancer (as am I) as well as be admitted to hospital in their first year of life etc etc among other very scary statistics.
The language used was shocking IMO! And seemingly designed to make women who don't/can't breastfeed feel awful! Has anyone else had this information handed to them and thought it was way over the top??

You've the best attitude- giving it a try but not beating yourself up if it doesn't work out. Please keep that attitude!

"Yes, but if the Green party walked around telling everyone buying meat at the supermarket about their increased colon cancer risk, that would also be called scaremongering.
And plain rude, to boot."

Are you saying that midwives shouldn't tell people about ways of reducing the risk to them and their babies of poor health/death - perhaps like stopping drinking alcohol or smoking while pregnant because it's 'rude'?

The NHS tells people about the risks and benefits of various diets all the time.

It is not being rude by doing so.

But nearly every single page contains very bold pro-breastfeeding statements and talks about how inferior formula is! And has NHS logo on front endorsing it!

But formula is inferior. It is proven that breast is best for mother and baby. To deny you that information in case you feel upset if it doesn't work out for you is disingenuous.

There is a real bias towards breastfeeding. Whilst it is good (the bond when feeding was the loveliest feeling and was sad when I had to stop for medical reasons) I find it annoying I can't even get Boots advantage points or use vouchers towards baby milk as (I think) the government have said we can't. There's even no adverts allowed, only from 6 months.

With ds I had breast feeding crammed down my throat. Even after he was born I couldn't produce enough milk for him (he was a very hungry baby) so I put him on formula to stop him going hungry. Midwife constantly kept getting the breast feeding advocates to visit me and call me as I had switched him to formula. Took ages for them to leave me alone.

It is a bit disingenuous to make no reference to the possibility it won't work out.

I remember having that appt with my midwife. I wasn't expecting to be able to breastfeed due to two breast reduction operations. I told her about it, and said that I was extremely unlikely to produce milk, but that if I did then I would breastfeed. She went on and on about the benefits of breastfeeding, and the risks to baby if I didn't. I felt horrible. Did she think that telling me that information was going to magically reconnect my milk ducts to my nipples?
I don't remember a leaflet. I understand the reasons behind the relentless promotion of breastfeeding, I don't think the methods used are working though. More support for mothers feeding, more breastfeeding clinics, more communication about la leche league etc would be better.
For what it's worth my poor battered boobs did produce milk, just not very much. I pumped and combination fed for a year. When I reached out to my health visitor about how hard it was to stay on pumping schedule and what could I do to make it easier, she said....If its too hard just stop.

I had this once. Was at an antenatal class where everyone said that they were planning to BF except me. I said that I couldnt so was going to bottle feed from birth.

I was then treated to a lecture about how every woman could BF, that all I needed was the determination to succeed, the right support and the commitment to keep going.

It utterly humiliating. I was almost in tears. When she had finished she asked if I woudl reconsider. I said yes, and where in the hospital department that would grow back my breast tissue for me after it had been removed in an op 2 years earlier.

You could have heard a pin drop. I never went back.

It has a whole section on breastfeeding problems, doesn't it?

How is that being disingenuous?

It also meets NICE and UNICEF best practice standards.

Some health professionals push breastfeeding far too much. I lost half the blood in my body giving birth to my son and couldn't breastfeed as a result of this. I was so upset at not being able to breastfeed and felt horribly guilty and that I was a shit mum to my little boy. My health visitor came round on day 12, had no idea about the circumstances of why I was bottle feeding, didn't bother to ask and told me I'd obviously not tried hard enough and that if I cared abut my son I'd go to a breastfeeding clinic . Looking back this significantly contributed to the pnd I subsequently developed. I get that breastfeeding is fantastic and has loads of benefits but it is pushed so hard it can really make new mums feel completely shit when it doesn't work out

Sorry....and where in the hospital was the department that would...

But formula is inferior if you have optimal conditions to make breastfeeding work. If you don't have that, then there are sitiations where formula can improve situations and save babies lives. But in the build up to labour and delivery when possibilities are many, breastfeeding is the preferable option.

OP, the fact is that there is a huge amount of pressure in a lot of areas of society not to breastfeed. An awful lot of families where nobody has breastfed for generations because it is believed that formula feeding is just as good. Don't get me wrong, we are incredibly lucky in the developed world that we have access to clean water and good quality formula and it is an often life saving, very good second best option. But it is second best. Breastfeeding is better for both the health of the baby and the mother. And a lot of people just don't know that. You mention that you think the kind of language used would make people feel bad if they tried to breastfeed and couldn't. How do you think they would feel if they chose to formula feed because they thought it was just as good and their mum/aunty/ next door neighbour said they'd get more sleep that way, or similar,and then they found out afterwards the facts that are in your leaflet? It's about informed choice.

Don't think it posted the picture the first time.

I failed at bf. 7 years later I still feel guilty about it and consequently all the fairly aggressive pro information pushes all my buttons. I don't in the least object to people being in favour of doing it, of talking about how well it worked for them but there's a line that is far too frequently crossed imo. I think some people can lose sight of the fact that it isn't possible for everyone and that that can be very upsetting. When you've tried for weeks, long after mw and hv have advised giving up, being told how much harm you've done your child is not helpful.

Op, if you've got information that feels a bit ott I'd bin it! And make the decisions that are best for you, your baby and your family and don't listen to people putting those decisions down.

"You've the best attitude- giving it a try but not beating yourself up if it doesn't work out. Please keep that attitude!"

If you want to increase your chances of not managing to breastfeed then walk around reminding yourself constantly that you may not be able to do it.

Then try to convince yourself that you won't have any negative emotions if you don't manage to breastfeed, because we all know that the best way to cope with sadness and disappointment is to pretend they don't exist.

If you want to breastfeed remind yourself that with good quality support and determination at least 9 out of 10 women are able to breastfeed. Then start reading as much as possible about how breastfeeding works, find out where you can access breastfeeding support in your area, and spend as much time around other breastfeeding women as you can.

And try to remember that it can take 6 weeks or sometimes more to get breastfeeding to be comfortable and to work well.

I feel it's anything like the experience I had in hospital I fully agree it will be pure propaganda. I think at one point even the fucking cleaner asked me if I planned to breast feed and did I know how beneficial it was? I felt totally put upon the whole time I was in there. It amazed me because I hadn't given it that much thought, but had decided to give it a go; and if it didn't work go on to bottle. As it was, I did breastfeed and found it suited me great (can't forget to take my boobs out with me!), but I couldn't do it at first, largely because - as I tried to tell them for hours - dd couldn't actually breathe whilst on the breast. Did the midwives help me? Get dd checked out? Sympathise? Did they fuck. They just kept grabbing my boob and shoving it in dd's mouth, and tutting at me. Part of the propaganda is that BF is 'natural' so of course everybody can do it! Bollocks.

I had fully intended to breast feed, then had a child who couldn't breast feed. No reason ever found as to why, and we had plenty enough help with trying. I then had PND as a result of all the information I'd been given about what would happen to your baby if you didn't breast feed (or at last that's how my head translated it). A year in I had to have CBT as I'd become convinced my child would die if I wasn't with him, this was all because I was so sure he would either die from cot death or from some illness I hadn't managed to protect him from by not breast feeding. Three years on I still struggle. If it had of been my choice not to breast feed then this kind of literature may have helped me change my mind. As it was not my choice this kind of literature had a direct impact on my mental health, and my relationship with my son.

Breastfeeding should be the norm though. It's up to each individual how they feed their baby but stating facts shouldn't make others feel bad. Yawn at the continued posts along these lines. They just set everyone off sparring. I just hope support is there once baby is born, because that's where the nhs seems to continue to let mums down in terms of breastfeeding in my experience. I think you are overreacting sorry.

"When you've tried for weeks, long after mw and hv have advised giving up, being told how much harm you've done your child is not helpful."

The OP is only 24 weeks pregnant.

No one is suggesting giving this information to mothers who have already stopped breastfeeding. What would be the point.

Do you have any screenshots of the specific passages? I downloaded a sample of the guide using the link posted by sparkling and what I read honestly wasn't that bad, some of it was actually quite good although I realise I'm only seeing two pages.

The NHS have a duty to provide the facts and to list the pros/cons of all feeding methods just as they list the pros/cons of the various types of pain relief available in labour. It's about giving women the information they need to make an informed choice and the current guidance states that breastfeeding must be promoted as the optimal choice. I don't agree with how it's promoted and I think the 'breast is best campaign did more harm than good but it is what it is. The MW is following the instructions given to her and providing the information she's been told to provide.

Oh I had the MW grabbing my boob and shoving it in the baby's mouth too. V helpful.

When I visit UK I am always a bit shocked at how low breast feeding figures are. I New Zealand just about everyone does or at least tries. I know some woman can't or it's painful and at the other end I have seem women crying with bleeding nipples and still being told they can feed no problem - (they wouldn't do that if it was a bloke). I think breast feeding is just more acceptable at a societal level here.
I think facts are good but making it possible much more important - safe rooms where women can express if needed, cafes welcoming feeding mums , flexible workplaces.

EthelFleda it sounds like you have are being pragmatic, can evaluate the information, and decide for yourself. Good for you!

I was adamant the my DD would never have anything but breastmilk, and have prolonged feeding until age 2. Yup, none of that worked.
What can I say, we both had a terrible time health wise at the beginning. She never latched on. I supplemented formula with expressing 7+ times a day for 8 months and it nearly crucified me. Wish I'd had the guts to give up earlier. She is now a large 8 yr old, happy, healthy and top of her class. Yes I wish she'd been breastfed (and do feel some unwarranted guilt) but I'd love she had other things in her life too that I can't afford. Good enough is good enough at the end of the day.