To not understand why grenfell victims want the investigation panel to include Morrocan and Nigerian ethnicities

[Ijustwantaquietlife]

Surely the only thing that's important is they are experts with experience or knowledge? I can't see why ethnicity even gets into it.

Maybe I'm missing something but hecking the current panel and calling for them to be replaced as they are "too white" just doesn't sit very well with me.

As far as I'm aware, expat English communities are not normally housed in unsafe towerblocks by the authorities of the country they are living in.

So you're worming your way out of answering a moral question by quibbling over its likelihood? Uh-huh.

I repeat - would that be a legitimate demand by an English community that - for whatever reason, by whatever chance - had been housed in an unsafe tower block by the country's authorities?

You can't answer it, can you?

I am a lawyer. I and my friends want to know where our houses in Kensington are because according to people here, we all should have them.
Belief in stereotypes clearly not the sole preserve of the judiciary and legal profession, it would seem. Perhaps we should conclude that no one should be allowed to make any judgements about anything, as no one can be trusted to put aside prejudice and weigh facts impartially?

English expats can rely on the Foreign Office for assistance, they are not the bottom rung of society.

I'll ask again, do you think it's a coincidence that the victims of this incidence were ethnic minorities? And another coincidence that the inquiry panel are white?

LadyinCement, if a flat full of junkies in Glasgow,hull or somewhere else went up in flames we more than likely wouldn't be discussing it let alone wondering about the panel

noblegiraffe

English expats can rely on the Foreign Office for assistance, they are not the bottom rung of society.

So you're refusing to answer the question because you know it would destroy your own argument? Fine - I'll answer it for you. Most reasonable people would regard such a demand by an English community abroad to be at the very least chauvinistic, and at the worst tinged with racism and prejudice. Most reasonable people would say that that English community should be satisfied with the civic and democratic procedures in the country in which they have chosen to live.

The exact same thing is true in this case.

How the Foreign Office can help you out:

"Make or suggest appropriate representations to the local authorities if there are concerns that the investigation or judicial process is not being carried out in line with local laws or procedures."

I think some of the commentators have a perspective that is not dissimilar to that which would have been held in the days of the British Empire - and over 80 people had died in in some distant territory then and there.

It's as if what people are saying/wish to believe is:-

A: Local democracy as personified by the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea is working splendidly to represent all residents
B: National democracy as embodied by the Houses of Parliament is working well for all people living in the UK
C: The judiciary is without bias and prejudice is working well and can therefore lead enquiries without any partiality
D: It is unfortunate that some cladding decided to spontaneously combust and could have happened to anyone
and
E: Who are these uppity surviving foreigners/***rs who want to be represented?

All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds?

What utter rubbish. The reason why English expats are not housed in tower blocks is because most countries will not allow you to immigrate if you require access to housing at public expense. They have to house themselves. The comparison is nonsense.

MagdalenNoName

And some people seem to believe that there's a sinister conspiracy across all of British society against the inhabitants of Grenfell Tower and all those like them.

The burden of proof generally rests on conspiracy theorists to prove their case, not vice versa.

Why should the Grenfell residents have any trust for people in authority after what they've been through?

It's hardly a conspiracy theory that their building was unsafe and as a result huge numbers of people died horribly, is it?

I think it is arguable that there has been a conspiracy to marginalise and neglect those who cannot afford to be owner occupiers in a highly expensive city where property is regarded as a source of investment income.

Those who have benefited from this speculation and inequality are not best equipped to judge how this marginalisation and neglect led to needless loss and life.

It's a conflict of interest, if you like.

It's hardly a conspiracy theory that their building was unsafe and as a result huge numbers of people died horribly, is it?

What we know is that the building was unsafe, and that many people died horribly, yes. But everything else about the case is still to be determined, which is the whole point of the public inquiry. You're assuming conclusions that have not been and cannot yet be made.

The purpose of the enquiry is not to inspire trust in the residents; it is to uncover the truth, and thereby improve public safety throughout the country (and perhaps beyond). There is an overpowering public interest in understanding the proximate causes of this disaster and this nonsense is detrimental to that interest and anyone with any sense of responsibility and decency should stop it.

Gosh, do we really not know anything this many weeks on since the incident? It's bizarre how silent everyone has remained, just waiting for the official investigation to kick off

The purpose of the enquiry is not to inspire trust in the residents;

Oh, those whiny residents who just happen to have inconveniently been victims of one of the most horrible incidents in recent UK history. Yeah, fuck them and their interest in seeing this done properly.

I think it is arguable that there has been a conspiracy to marginalise and neglect those who cannot afford to be owner occupiers in a highly expensive city where property is regarded as a source of investment income.

Those who have benefited from this speculation and inequality are not best equipped to judge how this marginalisation and neglect led to needless loss and life.

It's a conflict of interest, if you like.

Yes, of course, the absence of socialism caused the fire. Do you have any idea how tenuous the chain of causality is from "London's housing market is pretty capitalist" to "that's why 80 people died in a fire". I suspect the only public inquiry whose verdict would make that direct connection would be one presided over by Corbyn himself.

Mumsnet has recently had over a dozen threads where people agonise over the impending death of one very sick (white) child who cannot be saved by medicine.

Some Mumsnetters have also chosen to grieve over the death of a privileged white woman and mother who died twenty years ago

It seems a little unfortunate if some Mumsnetters wish to close down discussion about the avoidable deaths of around 100 adults and children and the traumatised survivors who managed to make it to safety.

Why do only some deaths and some lives appear to be more worthy of our compassion?

Could it be that we are prejudiced? And partial??

that's not what I've said, noble giraffe, and you know it; although perhaps, judging by the quality of your input here, perhaps I'm assuming too much and you really don't.
In which case, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain. The purpose of any judicial enquiry or other judicial process in this country is to arrive at the truth, or as near as imperfect human agency can get to it. Spend a day in any court in this country, civil or criminal, and that's what you'll see. If you don't like that and want to make it about something else I think you'll struggle, because most people still do think that truth is paramount, especially when it comes to issues of public safety.

And do you think that the truth can only be delivered by white people, Karlos? Because it's a bit odd, don't you think, in a case where race may play a huge role, to not have a diverse team?

Thoughtless even?

Point to one single statement I have made that justified any ground whatever to suppose I believe that truth can only be delivered by white people. Your post is outrageous and if I were a believer in censorship I would ask for deletion. As it is I think it's better people see your mindset for what it is and judge you accordingly.

On this site, it's often said that when women tell men about what it's like to be a woman, and the issues that come with it, men should do nothing but listen. They certainly should not tell women that things are in fact otherwise.

Here we have a group of people from ethnic minorities, they are also victims. They are trying to tell people that race is important in this. It's important to them. And here we have a bunch of white people ignoring their concerns and telling them what's good for them?

I really expected better of MN, tbh.

That's an unfair accusation to make noble, with no basis from what I've read.

Fairness does not interest these people. Nor does truth or safety of the public. I made the point that people with any sense of responsibility and decency would stop this rubbish. Fairly clear which side of that divide some people are on.
As we're in the business of sweeping condemnation, I may as well join in!

Fairness does not interest these people.

What people?

Are you really that dim or is the addiction to cheap points just too hard to break?