To not understand why grenfell victims want the investigation panel to include Morrocan and Nigerian ethnicities

[Ijustwantaquietlife]

Surely the only thing that's important is they are experts with experience or knowledge? I can't see why ethnicity even gets into it.

Maybe I'm missing something but hecking the current panel and calling for them to be replaced as they are "too white" just doesn't sit very well with me.

It's nothing like a roomful of men deciding on women's reproductive rights. This is an enquiry into something that happened, not a policy making body. The people selected are experts. They will make findings of fact, and recommendations consequent on those facts, and I'd be surprised if we didn't see one that social housing should be policed much more tightly to prevent the kind of sub-letting and overcrowding which went on at GT.

The role of survivors, 'community' types etc. will be as witnesses, not members of the panel trying to influence its findings in a way they consider politically acceptable, and the professional agitators who seem to have attached themselves to this cause need to be kept out at all costs.

I'm Asian but I find the idea that someone would represent me better if they shared the same skin tone bordering on offensive.

That's the sort of ignorance that maintains the status quo. Even better that you find it bordering offensive. Turkey voting for Christmas comes to mind.

I'm mixed and part of one of my cultures subjects women to cruel and unusual treatment as a matter of course. When there was a consultation regarding this they sought to include women who'd experienced this practice.

Diversity and inclusion is important. The shocking thing here is that you as an Asian woman can't see that.

CathF what do you mean about public attitudes following a certain pattern. What do you think will happen exactly.

Unconscious bias is real. Having panels of mixed racial backgrounds will help avoid any issues like that. We like to think we live in a world where people see beyond colour and class, but it's simple not true.

Helena

Thanks for the info. I'm disgusted by the behaviour of these abusers.

Pixies

What I meant by that statement is they would be asked what happened, their statements formally made public record (that would happen i imagine once the enquiry finished) and ensured their voices matter. That the final report would be non biased and contain the information gathered and an appropriate response and action plan. Perhaps I'm wrong or being naive . This is how it should work. Not smoke and mirrors... or daggers.

The way repairs and refurbishments are done in social housing is what needs to be policed.

The enquiry is doomed to fail.
Some victims of the fire want answers immediately and guilty people punished.
Others want a wide ranging enquiry into everyone and everything that is connected in any way whatsoever. That would take years.
Both sides want the impossible.

Plenty of potential for misogynistic, upper class, and racist attitudes there then @noblegiraffe - what s surprise.

But they are looking into building materials and how the fire engulfed the block and recommendations for how this could be prevented in future. Surely you just want the best people for the job? I don't really understand why the colour of skin comes into it? is the assumption that unless the panel is a fair representation of the inhabitants that the recommendations they make will be less accurate?

www.geog.leeds.ac.uk/fileadmin/documents/research/pfisocialhousing/MFN_PFI_Refurb_Experiences_Report.pdf

Residents were told to remove their pets, but no compensation was offered to cover the
costs involved.
 No consideration was given to residents who worked night shifts.
 Workers used electricity paid for by of residents, without offering compensation.
 Doors were left open and residents were able to wander in unchallenged by workers
who did not know them.
 Quality alterations that residents had already made to their homes were ripped out to
make way for inferior alternatives.
 Supposedly completed electrical rewiring was found to be substandard and occasionally
dangerous.
 Supposedly completed pipe works and its housing were found to be substandard.
 In some homes, odd sized radiators and kitchen unit doors had been fitted.
 Flooding in one home had been caused by an unsupervised apprentice.
 Households were left overnight without running water or a toilet.
 At least one resident was left without electricity for a whole weekend.
 Some workers were found to be abusive, bullying and inconsiderate, especially towards
elderly or otherwise vulnerable residents

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/21/the-real-cost-of-regeneration-social-housing-private-developers-pfi?CMP=share_btn_fb

I would have thought that on an investigation panel into a fire you would want technical experts who can assess why the fire took hold so very fast. The Moroccan population isn't huge--how many fire experts and safety specialists or whatever could it realistically provide?

Or isn't this the kind of panel expertise that is sought? News reports seem a bit vague.

Hodkinson carried out a qualitative survey of 14 homes refurbished by Rydon that had been the subject of a huge number of complaints. Showers were fitted next to electric fans. A toilet was installed so close to a wall that you could only sit on it sideways. Some households went for days without electricity and weeks without cooking facilities. Cupboards were fitted with wrongly size doors. Tenants who complained reported that they were treated dismissively. One remembered the site supervisor saying to him, “It ain’t Chelsea, mate.” Regenter’s out-of-hours emergency line linked to the wrong database, so callout engineers weren’t available. The striking thing was how long problems could drag out: one family’s flat was flooded in January 2014, and repairs weren’t even scheduled till September. Two years later, their flat still hadn’t been fully repaired and redecorated. Even at the most straightforward level, the work wasn’t done to a decent standard.

When approached for comment, Rydon said that since the complaints were made, three years ago, attempts have been made to remedy the problems. They said the comments were not reflective of most of the residents, and that there was a good level of satisfaction among the residents now.

For tenants with more complicated requirements, the situation was worse. The Cifuentes family, one of whom used a wheelchair, was left without ramps, hoists or any means of escape in a fire, and without a lock on the front door. Repairs were so slow and haphazard that, at one point, the family had to move out for over a month, and the disabled member could only have his needs met by going into a respite unit – whereupon they were threatened with losing their carer’s allowance, their disability allowance and their car.

Plenty of potential for misogynistic, upper class, and racist attitudes

How odd, user, when I didn't mention sex or class. Surely you don't only see privilege as belonging to the upper classes?
As for race, are you saying that racism doesn't exist?

There were countless other concerns, which Stuart Hodkinson reported to the Health and Safety Executive, as well as to senior officers and elected members of Lambeth and other London councils, the fire service, the gas, water and electricity boards – anyone he could think of. “The response was generally pathetic,” he says.

The Health and Safety Executive took six weeks to reply, then apologised for the “ridiculous amount of time it had taken to investigate”, but did offer two important revelations – that Regenter as the principal contractor did not have an efficient system for managing and monitoring the 14 sub-contractors on site when they visited; and that cuts to health-and-safety funding meant that their scope for investigating and enforcing standards was reduced. Hodkinson was told to contact the Trading Standards authority, but residents across different council housing regeneration schemes told him there was no point as “local authorities do not investigate themselves”

Make housing associations subject to FoI says industry bosses
by David Sharman Published 18 Jul 2017
0
Print Friendly 4
A proposed law making housing associations subject to the Freedom of Information Act has won the backing of the regional and national press trade body.

The News Media Association is supporting a bill which has been proposed and drafted by the Campaign for Freedom of Information.

The CFOI is urging MPs who won the right to introduce their own bill in a ballot last week to sponsor their Freedom of Information (Contractors etc) Bill, which would allow the public to see information held by contractors about public services they provide.

The bill would apply to contracts delivered either by commercial bodies or charities, and would also bring local child safeguarding boards and housing associations under the FoI Act.

Parliament 1

For the bill to go forward at this stage one of 20 MPs who were successful in the 29 June Private Members Bill ballot would need sponsor it.

Maurice Frankel, CFOI director, said: “Housing associations have for years actively resisted coming under FOI. The result is that when questions are put to them they can fold their arms, look the other way and refuse to answer.

“Concern about the safety of their premises after the Grenfell fire makes that unsustainable

I'm not sure I dare say what I mean Helena, as every time I voice it, I am piled into by you and your supporters, but here goes.
I mean that public sympathy only goes so far, and at some point some one will break rank and say what a lot of people - including me - are thinking.
Which is, although the fire was obviously a horrendous tragedy, it does not mean the victims can make endless demands re housing, the inquiry, council personnel etc.
The fact that someone was a resident of the tower does not automatically make them a good person - some if the demands have been blatently taking advantage.
I also think a lot of the complaints on the tenants' association website were blown out if all proportion, but that is par for the course with tenants' associations, in my experience.
There I've said it. I assume you will report me.

CathF ive seen many opinions like yours on twitter I didnt report you previously btw. Because i think comments like yours should be left to stand.

It limits the oppertunity for gaslighting later on.

I daresay that the management company of Grenfell Tower decided that the residents repeated requests for safe, decent, accommodation were 'blatently' (sic) taking advantage.'.

There are a great many organisations people with blood - or more accurately - on their hands. Justice means holding such organisations to account.

The inquiry panel:

Headed by Sir Martin Moore-Bick, a retired judge. He practised as a barrister from chambers at 3 Essex Court, later 20 Essex Street. His practice was in commercial law and, in particular, shipping law.

Richard Millett QC has a broad commercial practice covering a variety of different specialist areas, with an emphasis on advocacy in court and in arbitration and other tribunals. He specialises in banking and financial markets, hedge fund and private equity disputes, insurance and reinsurance, insolvency, energy, and media and entertainment.

Bernard Richmond QC: He specialises in criminal defence cases. His work involving vulnerable witnesses and defendants and those with special needs, including children has given him considerable experience of examining and cross-examining expert witnesses.

Kate Grange QC: She regularly appears on behalf of central government in high-profile public law proceedings with particular emphasis on human rights, terrorism, prison and immigration law. Her practice also includes substantial and complex litigation, arbitrations or mediations arising out of large-scale commercial, construction and engineering, insurance and professional negligence disputes.

Mark Fisher: The Secretary to the Inquiry has been named as Mark Fisher CBE who was formerly Social Justice Director at the DWP responsible for the prevention of multiple disadvantage and long term welfare dependency and was previously Jobseekers and Skills Director at the DWP, responsible for designing and delivering the Work Programme.

'A female junior barrister'. Can't find her name.

Hardly a team of fire and safety technical experts with no room for anyone slightly more diverse.

I get it OP. If it was other way around and a white person DARED to say a panel was 'too ethnic' they'd be strung up and stoned to death as Racists!!!!

if people feel that part of the reason the circumstances that caused this tragedy was allowed to happen (in the sense of cost cutting, neglecting maintenence, ignoring residents etc, not in the sense of someone deliberately letting it happen) was due to institutionalised racism - well, I can understand people in that situation wanting someone who they feel represents them on that panel.

I read an article a while ago which was about compensation after accidents/fatalities for victims. When they calculate it, they look at what a person would have earned during their life. So women get less, PoC get less, poor people get less. Their lives are literally worth less. That's what happens when you allow rich white men to make all the decisions about things. It seems fair and logical, but only really if you're a white man. Which is why diversity is important.

Empathy
Identification
Subconscious racism
Bias

They are all documented, researched and proven.

People saying that the expertise of the panel is the most important thing, what kind of expertise?
Experts in cladding, fire safety, regulations, council meetings? Sure, they should be there.
And so should experts in experiencing life in GT, in trying to raise issues & being brushed off. Their knowledge of what happened is just as much a part of the picture and shouldn't be shut out. Yes, it could make for some difficult meetings if there are councillors and residents there together, but this entire situation goes way beyond difficult. If an inquiry can't manage some difficult meetings, it's not really going to be able to deal with the issues, is it?

Oh not another "to not understaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand" goady "minorities post"

You think race/ethnicity/colour doesn't matter - yet felt the need to say "I'm Asian" - so race etc can matter to you, but not to them?

Please...

Nasty threads inciting derogatory criticism of victims have been done to death on MN. This will hopefully be deleted soon enough so, get your jollies in now