My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

AIBU?

To contact social services?

122 replies

KizzyKat91 · 25/07/2017 19:21

I can't go into much detail with this one as could be outing, but I'm incredibly concerned about the mental and emotional wellbeing of the children involved and just can't get them off my mind.

I've known the mum for years and she's always struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts. She's had numerous courses of counselling and has been on antidepressants for years/regularly sees the GP etc

She's going through a bad patch again and has admitted she's had very specific suicidal thoughts and has been making plans. She saw the GP the other day and has had her medication increased.

When telling me all of this (in person and on the phone), her children have been present. She's very open about her suicidal thoughts and openly discusses it in front of them. She also talks about her financial problems and the huge amount of debt she is in.

I have gently suggested that maybe she shouldn't tell them these things as it might worry them/upset them (especially the specifics of how she's thought about committing suicide).

Her response was that mental health issues shouldn't be hidden, she has nothing to be ashamed of and that they need to know why she isn't like other mums and sometimes cant get out of bed etc.

But it must be causing them a huge amount of anxiety?? Both seem very immature for their ages, very clingy and the youngest can be very quiet. The oldest also regularly throws temper tantrums and shows a lot of resentment towards the mum, but then gets very upset and guilty and clingy afterwards. Oldest also seems to struggle to make friends with children her age and spends a lot of time with the younger sibling.

I asked the youngest whether he had any plans for the summer holidays and he said he'd probably be at home a lot as mum would be in bed :(

FWIW the children are well fed, well dressed and incredibly loved. They do a lot of out of school activities during term time and want for nothing. The father is around but he works odd shifts and does a lot of overtime.

So they're not being neglected and they're not in any physical danger, but it must be very upsetting and stressful for them. WIBU to contact social services? The whole family needs more support and surely the children could do with some counselling themselves? would social services be able to help with this?

OP posts:
Report
leghoul · 25/07/2017 20:56

OK. More thoughts on this. I work with an organisation and where we have someone with concrete suicidal plans and small children we can break confidentiality as it is a safeguarding issue. However for us the plans have to be real, calculated and expressed plans rather than talking about suicide as a way of expressing pain, depression, etc.
If she has reached the stage where her suicidal ideation has now become concrete planning and has made a plan and has communicated it in front of the children then I take back what I said and think yes, you'd be in the right for flagging this somewhere.

Report
GColdtimer · 25/07/2017 20:56

@AndNowItIsSeven if she is talking about jumping in front if a train in front of her children I think things are pretty bad. Those kids need help.

Report
LovelyBath77 · 25/07/2017 20:57

I have found MIND pretty vague to be honest, in my area anyway. You can contact NSPCC and they can contact SS anonymously for you, so she wound't know it came from you, (unless you said something identifying or only you would know, I suppose, but if she says these things quite openly it should be OK).

Report
Crumbs1 · 25/07/2017 20:59

I think it's a particularly unloving way to treat children. It's actually selfish and indulgent - regardless of mental health problems. Parents have a responsibility to protect their children not terrify them. Poor things.
Offer to take them to the park/ beach/for an ice cream?
Suggest local holiday club? Is there one at their school?

Report
LovelyBath77 · 25/07/2017 20:59

Sound like they could do with some financial help too, he is just enabling her spending there, sadly. Payplan are good for debt, free service.

Report
user1497480444 · 25/07/2017 21:00

I have gently suggested that maybe she shouldn't ..

it really riles me when posters say they have "gently" suggested something or other, it basically means condescending, patronising, judgmental, superior stuck their ore in and stirred it around whilst somehow maintaining the fiction in their minds that they have the higher moral ground.

report her if you think the situation should be assessed, but get your ore out, and b off with your "gently" suggesting stuff outside of your little realm of existence.

Report
MattBerrysHair · 25/07/2017 21:01

Could you phone SS and explain the situation without giving her name and ask whether it's a matter for them? If they are not concerned then at least you've acted responsibly and sought advice regarding your worries. If they are concerned, and I think they will be, you can give them her details. It must be very damaging for the children to hear such things.

I have mental health problems, self-harm, suicide ideation etc. but I would never, ever speak of it to my dc. They know I have depression and anxiety and that it causes me to withdraw from the world at times. They absolutely do not need to know that I sometimes want to take a blade to my wrist!

To put another perspective on things, if your friend claims sharing her suicidal urges with her dc is ok, you could use a sex analogy: my dc know about sex as far as the biology and the basic mechanics of it goes (they are 9 and 6). They know about puberty and that people have sex for purposes of procreation and the 9 year old knows adults also do it for fun. However, they do not need to, and never will, know about the intimate details of their parents' sex life.

Report
LovelyBath77 · 25/07/2017 21:02

This is worrying me now.One time I had to go for a few sessions of counselling at the GPs and the only time available was when I had DS (3 at the time) with me, he used to have awful tantrums on the way and in some sessions, I'd be quite upset and talking about the emergency surgery and other stuff I'd had.. I hope that hasn't affected him. I thought he's be too young to take much of it in, and the counsellor had toys for him. Poor thing, feel really guilty now.

Report
LovelyBath77 · 25/07/2017 21:04

Sorry, this isn't about me.

What about meeting her some time without the children for a coffee or something and raise it more with her, in case she wants to talk it through? Not sure. Maybe she feels she has no-one to talk to therefore share it with them? It makes me think of parentification, in a way (where parents rely on the children as their caretakers) I had some of that as a child and it isn't nice.

Report
Rinkydinkypink · 25/07/2017 21:07

Who is your local young carers service? The children are caring for their mother! Get the children some support for their role. Her mental health is being managed by a Gp but sounds like she needs a cpn for times of crisis. She's not neglecting the DC but her health will be impacting them.

Report
sugarplumfairy28 · 25/07/2017 21:07

My DH suffers with Bipolar disorder, and we have certainly been through the mill with things like this, we also have 2 DC. I can only speak from my perspective, and wouldn't dream of telling anyone else how to deal with sort of illness on a daily basis.

I totally agree that mental health should be openly spoken about, how illnesses can change how you think, what the effects can be, and this should include children. Like with any other topic though, details and information should be put in a format that they can understand and digest at whatever age they are, and in an environment where it can be discussed rather than just witnessed.

My children have overheard episodes despite my best efforts, and heard things that frighten them and upset them and its not nice for them. My children felt helpless and concerned, which isn't an aspect of mental health they should have to deal with, awareness is one thing, but they shouldn't be consumed by it. I think that while children should be taught about mental health, they do need to know that thinking, talking and planning suicide is not normal and its not something that should be common place or ignored.

If my children were being exposed to prolonged periods of depression episodes, and I couldn't do anything to stop them being exposed, I know I would feel so much worse if someone called social services, in my experience what you need is practical help. Depression is an illness and a nasty nasty one at that. I would ask people to look at ways of helping like with any other illness before taking steps that would split a family up, and a loving one at that.

Report
viwaro · 25/07/2017 21:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

jobergamot · 25/07/2017 21:08

Hope this ends well. Come back and tell us how the SS involvement panned out....

Report
NotAnotherNoughtiesTune · 25/07/2017 21:10

I've suffered from anxiety since I was little and depression and other issues since 11 I have the most sympathy in the world for someone suffering.

But discussing suicide in front of your kids is going to be traumatising, especially the details.

Yes being open about MH is great. Saying Mummy feels sad and sometimes feels things won't get any better is fair enough. I don't even discuss with adults I love my thoughts as I know it would be distressing for them.

I'd call NSPCC or Young Minds and see if they have any advice?

Those with the non of your business attitudes are worrying in many ways.

Report
KizzyKat91 · 25/07/2017 21:10

@user1497480444

" but get your ore out, and b off with your "gently" suggesting stuff outside of your little realm of existence".

"Little realm of existence"? Are you suggesting that I have no experience of mental health issues and so have no right to intervene?

Following a sexual assault I was severely depressed and suicidal for 2 years. Thankfully, a combination of very supportive and loving family and friends, antidepressants and counselling meant that I managed to overcome my depression and have been off antidepressants for the last 2 years. I am very proud of how far I have come and consider myself a survivor.

By gently suggested I simply meant I asked if I thought it was wise that she talk about killing herself in front of her kids and wondered whether it would upset them. She said it was good to be open about it and so I haven't mentioned it since but have been worrying about it and the children's welfare.

So Fuck off.

OP posts:
Report
Miserylovescompany2 · 25/07/2017 21:12

Your friend has been proactive in seeking help from her GP. She will have good days, bad days and feel like ending it days. She can not help this.

What do you think a phone call to Children's services will achieve? Do you think they'll take the softly softly approach - then chuck copious amounts of support at her?

They will carry out intrusive assessments - which will most likely push your friend over the edge that she's already teetering on.

If her GP was concerned, they would have made a referral themselves. Same goes for the children's school.

Report
NotAnotherNoughtiesTune · 25/07/2017 21:13

She also needs to seek help with her shopping addiction. Horrible she feels low but it's nobody else's job to make her feel happy, she has to lead that herself - her husband is doing her no favours.

I grew up with a sister who was emotionally and sometimes physically abusive. Although I rarely think of her in day to day life, the lasting impact is very evident.

Report
DJBaggySmalls · 25/07/2017 21:13

KizzyKat91 google Action for Young Carers and suggest she gets in contact with them. they can give her and the kids some support.
And YANBU.

Report
hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman · 25/07/2017 21:14

I am coming at this from the viewpoint of a, now adult, child of a mother who had complex and serious mental health problems and I wish someone had advocated for me in this way.

Report
letsfeelgoodplease · 25/07/2017 21:17

You REALLY need to contact social services. There IS damage being done to the children hearing that sort of thing, and what sort of a life is that for them. SS will not whip in and take kids. It doesn't work like that despite the ignorants who think it does.

There will be early intervention and support that can be offered to work with Mum and help the family.

Mum clearly needs help. It is awful she is saying those things in front of the children. Don't mean to be harsh but what if she did take her life one day - what about her children then?

Whatever support etc from gp whoever is clearly not working and she needs more help.

Poor kids, and the thought of them spending the summer holiday through that. I have no doubts they will be heading towards mental health issues if that continues.

Do the right thing OP, and glad the kids have you looking out for them.

Report
birdtableseeds · 25/07/2017 21:17

Why not call the NSPCC and the Mind/Sane helplines for advice? They should be able to advise.

Report
jobergamot · 25/07/2017 21:21

^What do you think a phone call to Children's services will achieve? Do you think they'll take the softly softly approach - then chuck copious amounts of support at her?

They will carry out intrusive assessments - which will most likely push your friend over the edge that she's already teetering on.

If her GP was concerned, they would have made a referral themselves. Same goes for the children's school.^

Absofuckinglutely.

Report
Nubia66 · 25/07/2017 21:22

How could anyone suggest that you mind your own business?? Yes, she is engaging in services but they will not necessarily be aware that she's openly discussing her suicidal thoughts in her children's presence. Never mind the 'stigma' attached to it. What about these poor children who must be absolutely anxiety-ridden? You absolutely need to alert social services to this.

Report
JenziW · 25/07/2017 21:23

I agree contacting NSPCC for advice would be a good idea. I wouldn't like to think SS would cause more problems but may be seen as an attack yes. I definitely dont think its right that the children are exposed so much to all of it. Its one thing not to hide it but another entirely to be discussing it so in depth and discussing the method that might be used. Good luck. It would be worse to butt out and one day be told she had gone through with it and forever wonder what you could/should have done.

Report
lemonandelderflower · 25/07/2017 21:24

Genuine question

What do posters think SS would do in this instance?

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.