To think that actually, 4.30 am is not an acceptable time to start the day?

[TooGood2BeFalse]

Hi all.

I have a 1 year old and a 5 year old. I have just left an abusive marriage and am currently staying with my 60 year old dad.My lovely mum died of cancer 3 years ago.

I left our home with no intention of returning and I never will. In the 3 months I've been staying here, my 1 year old has decided to start the day at 4.30 am :-( I have tried everything from different food, putting him to bed earlier/later, he's just now trying to walk so loads of physical time etc. This has been the past 2 months.

I'm so tired.My older son is on the autistic spectrum so has to go to bed at exactly 8pm (he is 5 but an expert on telling the time).But it takes me perhaps 30mins to wind him down, we have to recite the alphabet forwards, backwards (and In french) before he can relax.He is very high functioning and since we started his therapies he's just blossoming.

But I am also trying to work at night (writing, marketing, copy writing, etc) to support us as STBXH is skint and nowhere around.

I need to have a few hours in the evening not just to work, but to clean, do laundry,get my head together etc.But my baby, who is beautiful, lovely easy baby etc. Just insists on these early wakeups.

My AIBU is, I have asked his paediatrician for advice.I have (shamelessly) asked other mothers for advice. But the general consensus is, I am being silly to not understand that some babies wake up early.He will have a 2 hr nap about 9.30 and I'm so grateful that he goes down easily.But he refuses afternoon nap and then is a grumpy git from 3pm onwards.

Sorry I'm not making much sense.

Am I being unreasonableto expect a 1 old (not BF) to sleep longer than 6.45pm to 4.30 am?

On my knees here, hard hat on.Please help. I am trying my hardest to make a new, better life for my sons but at the minute I am so tired I am not functioning well.My dad is the loveliest, most supportive parent you could imagine but I'm trying not to wear him out either.

Think the general consensus here seems to be try a few weeks of delaying the nap and hopefully that will reset his body clock. Will try that again and hope for the best Thank you all so much.

Am considering a part time childminder once I have found a new place to live so I can work.

Sorry, cant remember who asked but no DS1 doesn't need constant supervision. He is a bit of a mess maker but pretty sensible on the whole. But because Im currently staying at my dad's, he has a swimming pool so I absolutely don't expect any 5 year old on the planet to resist that temptation So I can't nap when baby does if DS1 is home

Am I being unreasonableto expect a 1 old (not BF) to sleep longer than 6.45pm to 4.30 am?

I think most of us would wake up by 4-30 if we went to bed at 6.45pm, wouldn't we?
My 1 year old gets up at about 8.30am but that is because she goes to bed at 9pm.

Its not ideal, but plenty of working people have to get up at that time. I get up at 5 - can't say I love it, but hey ho got to pay the bills and no point moaning about life not being perfect.

Ok Op you need to shift his routine. he needs a lunchtime nap then bed at 8ish ..he is sleeping from 645 til 545 thst is a normal amount of sleep !

Keep him in the morning and stop him having such an early nap. It will take a week or two but he will gradually get there ....he is making up for waking early and its throwing his day out.

How long did you try a later bedtime for? There is no way he will wake later if he goes to bed so early you just have to perservere.

Changing a routine cant happen overnight. To wake up later he will have to have a completely different routine with late bedtime every night for weeks.

Think of it as shifting time zones. If you moved to france his bodyclock would eventually shift forward 2 hours.

I would put him to bed as early as you possibly can for a few nights to catch him up. (It may be 6pm or even earlier) The very early wake-ups sound like he is massively overtired so you have to sort that before you can move on. The chances are he won't wake any earlier, and if he does it will then very much be a night waking rather than an early morning wake-up.

Then bring the early morning nap forward and cut it short - try and wake him after one sleep cycle (45 mins ime) - so that he is not too grumpy. You should then be able to get the afternoon nap in - which is where you will be aiming for.

Once he has caught up, you will be in a better place to push the bedtime routine back a bit if you need to.

Hey harshbuttrue, I bet you're one of those people who 'tells it like it is' and starts lots sentences with 'sorry but...'
Most people don't get up at 04:30. It is an early start. Take your little dig about working and nob off.
Best of luck OP, hopefully delaying the nap will eventually reset te sleep timings

Sorry, nothing helpful to add, as I just had to let mine grow out of their various eccentricities around sleep, which they did, eventually. I did do a lot of co-sleeping, though, to get some rest myself! It will get better. Good luck

Can I just say that we have to recite the alphabet forwards, backwards (and In french) is one of the most niche bedtime routines ever! Makes me

My DS is 13 months and we are having to jiggle his naps around too at the moment as he was taking 45 mins plus to fall asleep at night! He generally goes to bed at 7:15pm ish and is asleep by 7:30/7:40pm and sleeps around 12 hours but we have had to drop down to 1 nap a day to maintain this. He used to have one 30/40 min nap in the morning and the same again in the afternoon around 3pm but we have just dropped to one nap around 1pm now but the length massively varies! Anywhere from 30 mins to and hour and a half depending if he's been to soft play or playgroup etc or just out and about running errands with me in the car and pushchair.

zefstar thank you I did ask for help so will take what's given, but you really did make me laugh xx

Also just thought - make sure he isn't hungry at all before he goes to sleep - I would even give him a little extra milk and snack to make him sleepy ... I do think the move has unsettled him a little because babies are creatures of habit and that's why you need to get him out of this one although it's hard work - whatever you try, keep at it and give it a good few days to become normal. If he is in a room of his own in a cot, maybe when he wakes leave him to whinge a bit and see if he'll drift back off (as long as he isn't waking the whole house up).

donkey I'm not sure what niche means in that context , but because DS1 is on the spectrum he has a fascination with numbers and letters..it is a HUGE part of our life He is currently learning numbers in Japanese and I'm screwed,I can't keep up. ..

For the moment you need to be in bed by 10. It will make you much more productive. And bring your 1 year old into your bed in the morning in the dark with an 'its not morning yet' until say 6. It sounds as though your evening routine is working as baby is in bed so you can sort ds1 out, and if baby was up until 8pm as well you would have a problem.

You might need to use a playpen occasionally so you do the washing, housework while baby is up, and work while baby is asleep?

Id try the following-
*9.30 nap as usual
*wake him 45mins later (one sleep cycle)
*out and about for fresh air maybe the swings at the local park etc
*home for lunch, then a story
*attempt to put down for a nap by 1pm at the latest (try a long walk in the buggy if needed)
*let sleep as long as possible
*at some point in the afternoon more fresh air
*supper - no matter what his evening meal was offer porridge before bed
*stick to the 7ish bedtime
*ensure room is warm and dark (4am is the coldest part of the night)
*if he does wake at 4am try shhhh patting without taking him out of the cot
*if that doesnt work offer a small cup of warm milk in his room
*if that doesnt work bring him to sleep in with you

My two youngest were a tag team, one wouldn't go to sleep at night and the other got up at 4 am. God I remember the exhaustion and the feeling it would never end. I can't remember when it ended or even how long it went on, it was like living in a nightmare. I feel your pain and all I can say is it will end, they do grow up and you take your revenge by vacuuming early morning when they want to sleep till lunchtime. Hang on in there.

I'm so shocked 6:45 is considered early!
All three of mine are in bed by 6. The three year old is allowed to sit up and read and turn his light off when he wants to up to 7pm. I need my evening down time! They wake between 6am and 6:30am regardless of bedtime so 6pm it is!

We used sleep training - Alison Scott wrights sensational baby sleep or something like that. It was the best thing for our family.

I have a 1 yr old that does the same, irrespective of the time she goes to bed she is like clockwork up at 0430-ish. To be honest she has only in the last week starting sleeping through the night, so I am glad of that at least.
Although everyone who has kids is some kind of child expert, only having two myself has proven to me that they are unpredictable little beasts. They change on their own accord - so beware the correlation = causation fallacy. i.e. you were trying some magical technique and it worked. This seems to be the basis for everyone's expert opinion. Our 1 yr old woke up every few hours over night from birth and then last week she just decided not to. Our 4 yr old slept through the night perfectly from some ridiculously young age.
Clearly you can exert some effect by trying to be regular, nice environment etc., but I would expect most normal parents to try their best and want some bloody sleep!
I suppose over large populations there are some truisms about sleeping and parenting, but my current belief is that the "noise" of human behaviour outweighs most of it - so just cope as best you can and hope for the best.

I'm so shocked 6:45 is considered early!All three of mine are in bed by 6

Of course it's early. 6pm is practically mid afternoon. What time do they have dinner, 3pm?

Those whose kids get up at 4.30, do you have proper blackouts on the windows or are they just getting up with the dawn?

@toosexyforyahshirt we have dinner at 5 and then bath and bed for six. It's what works for us

That;s nice for you. But you can't be surprised that it's unusual.

Erm 6:45 isn't Eaely.
Dinner 5:30.
Bath 6.
6:30 milk and teeth etc
7pm bed
7am wake up.
Actually thinking about it he probably needs more sleep and is waking at 4:30 from over tiredness.
Shocked people think later nights will solve this and op as said loads of time she has tried this.
Read the sodding thread

Another one who thinks 6.45 bedtime isn't early. My six year old goes to bed only half an hour later than that.

Have you slept in your babies room?

My DD was doing this for ages after we moved and I couldn't figure it out until she was away for the weekend and DH was pissing me off so i slept in her bed, 5am there's this really weird scratchy vibrating noise, i think it was next doors phone alarm going off and with her bed against the wall it was sort of echoing, moved her bed to the other side of the room and suddenly no early morning wake ups.

Mine used to be coaxed (sometimes very reluctant) to have a nap at around 11ish until they started nursery when it was after lunch at 1pm ish ... I used to give my two dinner at around 5pm - bath was 6pm and bed 7pm (how I miss those days when I could watch all the soaps!) ... one used to always be up by 6am whatever and the other stayed in bed a little longer. The eldest (early riser) is now 17 and still doesn't really sleep in ever, but the youngest who's 14 is in bed still at 11.30am this morning ... unfortunately they now both go to sleep way after 11pm. Everyone is different - a poster put above that their little one doesn't go to bed until 9pm - if that suits then that's fine but that was not an option for mine until they were 8 or 9 .. we had stretched the 7pm out in half hour increments leading up to then

Ds2 (age 4) is still a 5.30 am waker no matter what time he goes to bed. I'm permanently tired as also have a disabled 8 yo. DH helps a huge amount but the only answer is to go to bed earlier. Maybe try co sleeping and he will settle back to sleep if he wakes? (Grasping at straws)