Punctuation

[GrandDesespoir]

AIBU to wonder why people make up their own personal rules for punctuation when this usually only has the effect of obfuscating what they're trying to say? (NB I'm not talking about established writers who have done this like James Joyce and e e cummings.)

I'm thinking of things like random spaces before exclamation or question marks, unnecessary capital letters, words in quotation marks when they have no need to be, and (my pet peeve) completely eshewing punctuation in favour of an ersatz stream-of-consciousness style with loosely-connected (or completely incoherent) thoughts separated by an indiscriminate number of dots.

Nobody suddenly decides they're going to start writing 1.2 when they actually mean 12, or 3 x 3 = 6 when they mean 3 + 3, so why do some people apparently think they should use punctuation differently to everybody else?

Nina, do you just hunt me down on any thread that I comment on about grammar? I'm not sure what youre trying to do but carry on it you V enjoy it. I'm pretty confident so I don't need to prove my skills to anyone here.

American English = puntuation inside quotation marks. Highly favour double quotation marks.

British English = either inside or out. M
Generally single quotation marks (though this is flexible). (Style guides of where the writer works would be a, well funnily enough a, guide.)

I'm 'more confused than ever!' about it now.

BTW, I'd have probably failed my journalism exam if I'd put no comma at all in my quote about the big bum.

You'd think a style guide would be a good guide Tizzy - ours definitely says my way but nearly all my younger colleagues use the other form, and the subs don't bother to correct them.

lochnessmonster - but what about a longer quote where I want to distinguish:

He said on the way to town "we'll show them what we're made of!"

He said "on the way to town we'll show them what we're made of!"

Alexkate2468

Nina, do you just hunt me down on any thread that I comment on about grammar? I'm not sure what youre trying to do but carry on it you V enjoy it. I'm pretty confident so I don't need to prove my skills to anyone here. grin

How ridiculous. It was only WHILE I was copying your post that I thought your name looked familiar.
The very idea that I would "hunt" anyone down...

Today 12:39 DadDadDad

lochnessmonster - but what about a longer quote where I want to distinguish:

He said on the way to town "we'll show them what we're made of!"

He said "on the way to town we'll show them what we're made of!"

I would put a comma after the unspoken part and a capital letter for the first word of the spoken part, as in:

He said, "On the way to town we'll show them what we're made of."

Sorry. Omitted the exclamation mark!

Daft that then, PuppyMonkey! What's the point in a Style Guide. Mind you it's like where I work.

I've been caught up (somehow) in editing everything that goes public; Plain English being the aim. I don't produce the content - having never learnt grammar at school it's been a mad learning curve!! Still learning ...

I did read that the punctuation inside the quotes occurred due to printer peoplr and thier printing presses (think there is a more formal description). They wanted to protect the block things the punctuation was on from damage - the quotes did this. Though I'm not too sure why the quotes didn't get damaged!

Fair enough, nina. Now suppose I want to distinguish between his exclamation:

He said, "On the way to town we'll show them what we're made of!"

and my own surprise reporting what he said:

He said, "On the way to town we'll show them what we're made of"!

Surely, that's a good case for the ending punctuation to be outside the quote marks?

That's really interesting Tizzy, cos yes when I was training there were still old school printing presses around.

Surely, that's a good case for the ending punctuation to be outside the quote marks?
Yes - outside the spoken part or direct speech to indicate YOUR surprise.

He said on the way to town "we'll show them what we're made of!"
He said "on the way to town we'll show them what we're made of!"

Sorry, daddaddad, I don't think either of those deserve/need an exclamation mark... I would write them as:

On the way to town, he said we'll show them what we're made of - reported speech
On the way to town, he said 'we'll show them what we're made of'.

But, yes, you're right in that the ! outside the " shows your surprise, not the speaker's.

OMG. One. Word. Sentences. WTF ,,, !!

Obviously, you can rewrite my sentences or use other ways to indicate the way something is said, but it's still my point that my sentences are perfectly grammatical and an acceptable style.

In any case, I would maintain that the '!' is needed if it's an economical way to convey that the speaker spoke with excitement or anger.

On the way to town, he said we'll show them what we're made of - reported speech
On the way to town, he said 'we'll show them what we're made of'.

I'd be on the same page as you DadDadDad.

No idea why an exclamation mark isn't deserved, seems completely fitting to me. Maybe there's a shortage!

I do try to ration my use of exclamation marks when writing say an email or forum post! I think more than one tends to blunt their impact! And too many can make you look like an over-excited teenager!!

On the way to town, he said we'll show them what we're made of - reported speech
On the way to town, he said 'we'll show them what we're made of'.

The first sentence should be written as follows:

Reported Speech (Indirect Speech) -

On the way to town he said they would show them what they were made of.

Direct Speech -

On the way to town to town he said,"We'll
show them what we're made of."

@thereallochnessmonster

Argh - extra "to town"!!!!

I can't understand why anyone would choose to re-write the OP. Other than to be a arse. It was perfectly understandable. Even if you don't know the meaning of a word, used correctly the context usually explains it.

One of the great things about the English language is its richness.

thereallochnessmonster
When I said unecessary capital letters I actually meant like the silly example I did (rather than the equally silly but expected in some workplaces on important words as you mentioned).

I once had 3 a4 sides handed in as homework with random capital and lower case letters within the same word. Always thought it was harder work to do that and to just type properly.

wowfudge
Didn't they do it to point out that there's ways of asking questions without sounding like a pretentious arse?

E.g. My boss does these odd things in work documents and it drives me up the wall. Does anyone know why they might be doing this?

Vs the OP which was 'ugh why do these people have to try and be so unique and whilst I'm here I'll throw in some big words because I can'

I think the first way of asking is much nicer.

Interesting that people think it's pretentious to use words of more than a couple of syllables. I didn't think there was anything wrong with the OP either, but I love words and love using them. Couldn't care if anyone else does but I can't stand anti-intellectualism for the sake of it.