Punctuation

[GrandDesespoir]

AIBU to wonder why people make up their own personal rules for punctuation when this usually only has the effect of obfuscating what they're trying to say? (NB I'm not talking about established writers who have done this like James Joyce and e e cummings.)

I'm thinking of things like random spaces before exclamation or question marks, unnecessary capital letters, words in quotation marks when they have no need to be, and (my pet peeve) completely eshewing punctuation in favour of an ersatz stream-of-consciousness style with loosely-connected (or completely incoherent) thoughts separated by an indiscriminate number of dots.

Nobody suddenly decides they're going to start writing 1.2 when they actually mean 12, or 3 x 3 = 6 when they mean 3 + 3, so why do some people apparently think they should use punctuation differently to everybody else?

Like deliberately adding a space before a question mark

How do you know that they have deliberately left a space before the question mark?

God i was so desperate to leave a space then

Sorry to derail this, but you lot seem like a jolly knowledgeable lot and I'm interested in your thoughts. I'm a trained journalist, so obviously my grammar is utterly rubbish. But when I was a trainee, we were always taught to do this with quotes.

"My bum looks massive in this," said Jennifer.

But everyone, including the newspaper industry, websites etc, seems to do this now:

"My bum looks massive in this", said Jennifer.

I am curious what you all think. The second one looks really wrong to me, but I realise I'm probably in the minority.

puppy

The first one is how i was taught

Is is different in the USA? Like apostrophes

PuppyMonkey - no need for a comma at all. They are so over-used.

You naturally pause when reading that sentence.

Puppy I was taught the first way too!

Okay, maybe that example wasn't the best. Here is another from a headline in today's Guardian...

Researchers admit prevention estimate is a ‘best-case scenario’, but stress that action can be taken to reduce dementia risk

OP, I have an issue with you using brackets instead of clauses but I wouldn't start a whole AIBU thread to say so.

I can't recall being taught either way (probably because I was in school during the Great Grammar Void). Though I do think structurally the comma after the double quotes makes sense; however, personally i wouldn't use one.

Puppy - I agree with you about putting the comma before the closing quotation mark.

I know that not everyone is good at punctuation. But like the OP, the thing that annoys me most is the use of trailing dots between sentences instead of full stops. It's really difficult to read stuff written like that. It also feels like an affectation. Why do people do it? It's completely unnecessary.

The first one.

tizzy

I think i grew up in that period (hahaha)

Wasnt taught punctuation or grammar...i think we were supposed to get it by osmosis

SmileEachDay, I'm totally with you. This post seems written entirely to try and show some sort of superiority.
I'm all for the correct use of grammar and punctuation when it's necessary. On here or other informal situations - I couldn't care less. Fiddling between keyboards on a phone to access the punctuation marks is too faffy and sometimes I don't change auto corrected words because I assume someone will know what I mean.
Maybe some writers are just being creative with their use of language - who knows.

There are some very nasty posts on this thread. Smacks a bit of bullying.

Probably to do with the predictive text on phones. If I spell a word wrong, not because I don't know how to spell the word but because my finger has hit e instead of r on my touchscreen phone, then the phone automatically corrects it and often adds a space. Then because it is usually just a mumsnet post or a quick message to friends I don't go back and do a spell check! It's more to do with people using tiny screens with fat fingers than us all being uneducated plebs.

Puppy - the Guardian quote looks fine to me - I think it's a question of style rather than a definitive grammatical rule. It feels more logical to me to keep the punctuation outside the quotes unless the punctuation is attributable to the quoted source, eg

He said "are you coming?"
Did he say "you are coming"?
Did he say "are you coming?"?

Puppy - no comma!

Puppy - "My bum looks massive in this," said Jennifer.
is correct. Speech marks always come after punctuation:

'Hello?' she shouted
'Help!' she yelled.
'Hello,' she said.

See New Hart's Rules 9.2.3 for clarification.

Researchers admit prevention estimate is a ‘best-case scenario’, but stress that action can be taken to reduce dementia risk - this is correct too, because the quoted text is 'best-case scenario' and speech marks come before punctuation in such cases -the comma is not part of the text being quoted.

Rufus - Is is different in the USA? Like apostrophes

How are apostrophes different in the USA? Spelling, idioms and punctuation is different in US speech, but not apostrophes...

It seems odd to me to say punctuation should always be inside the quotes. There is a distinction between:

He said "hello!" (implying that he said it in an exclamatory way)
He said "hello"! (I'm expressing shock that he uttered the word "hello").

there

Ignore me

Its the oxford or serial comma I'm thinking of, told you i was rubbish at punctuation

Its in the Eats Shoots and Leaves book and on some writing websites

I think Britain doesnt tend to use it but america does

Or something

I'm not sure i cAn "bring my-self" two care! x

Wrong ghosty so so wrong

Yesterday 21:19 UnaPalomaBlanca

My dad always used to insist it is different FROM, not different to.

He was right. You cannot be different TO! Think about it, people!
Re. the OP, I think she needs to do some revision.

Today 09:47 Alexkate2468

SmileEachDay, I'm totally with you. This post seems written entirely to try and show some sort of superiority.
I'm all for the correct use of grammar and punctuation when it's necessary. On here or other informal situations - I couldn't care less. Fiddling between keyboards on a phone to access the punctuation marks is too faffy and sometimes I don't change auto corrected words because I assume someone will know what I mean.
Maybe some writers are just being creative with their use of language - who knows.

Perhaps you are not terribly confident, in that case, and worry you might make mistakes if you try to be formal.

'Differwnt to' is more common in US English - en.oxforddictionaries.com/usage/different-from-than-or-to

Daddaddad
He said "hello!" (implying that he said it in an exclamatory way)
He said "hello"! (I'm expressing shock that he uttered the word "hello").

In reported speech like that I'd just put 'he said hello' - you really don't need quote marks there.