Punctuation

[GrandDesespoir]

AIBU to wonder why people make up their own personal rules for punctuation when this usually only has the effect of obfuscating what they're trying to say? (NB I'm not talking about established writers who have done this like James Joyce and e e cummings.)

I'm thinking of things like random spaces before exclamation or question marks, unnecessary capital letters, words in quotation marks when they have no need to be, and (my pet peeve) completely eshewing punctuation in favour of an ersatz stream-of-consciousness style with loosely-connected (or completely incoherent) thoughts separated by an indiscriminate number of dots.

Nobody suddenly decides they're going to start writing 1.2 when they actually mean 12, or 3 x 3 = 6 when they mean 3 + 3, so why do some people apparently think they should use punctuation differently to everybody else?

Oh come on now OP, it's very clear from your choice of flowery language in the OP, what you are trying to imply. I think Smile has hit the nail on the head.

It is, in fact, E. E. Cummings.

I am also applauding UnaPalomaBlanca and llangennith. And actually still applauding Smile who of course is putting into words what I see too: someone feeling rather superior about being able to spot others' mistakes, but taking those mistakes personally. Which is bizarre, by the way. Get out more.

Also, who are these people who think themselves so grand they can mess about with punctuation? Where do you find them? Give examples.

No MumBod it's e e cummings with no capitals or punctuation. That was part of the OPs point, that some people choose to break punctuation rules. In this she is right. I'm not sure about the rest of her point as I think most people who misuse punctuation do it by accident or through a lack of knowledge.

i am a pedant when it comes to spelling and grammar , txt speak and inappropriate use of abbreviations are especially painful !!! i cant' believe how wrong people get it , especially when predictive text does it all for you.....

shudders

loosely-connected should be loosely connected (compound adjectives containing an ‘-ly’ adverb do not need a hyphen: see New Hart's Rules).

E. E. Cummings often styled himself ee cummings. He experimented with form in poetry - see www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/49493/i-carry-your-heart-with-mei-carry-it-in

You're not starting this argument off in the best way by deliberately over-writing and using pretentious language. That will just get people's backs up and make them not want to take part.

Language is all about communicating and an important part of that is writing in plain English so that people can understand you easily. The point is not to show off how clever you think you are.

People don't tend to 'make up' their own rules for punctuation. They use what they think is correct - either because they've been taught to do it that way or have seen it done like that.

Nobody likes a grammar pedant, OP.

Do you want to show off, or do you want a discussion?

Er, you'd never thought people did it because they were unsure of where punctuation would go? Yet you are aware that people do it because they don't know it's a mistake?

Um, that's pretty close to the same thing. Unless you genuinely didn't know there is an area between 'don't know' and 'wilfull fuckery.'

I don't use the MN app, but for text messages my phone puts a space before punctuation.

Ah, I didn't know that happened on some phones.

ESCHEW OBFUSCATION.

I havent heard eshwing since Wayne's World

loosely-connected should be loosely connected (compound adjectives containing an ‘-ly’ adverb do not need a hyphen: see New Hart's Rules).

Hahaha! I was just about to say the same.

Ok, I am sorry for using flowery, show-offy language. My bad.

But I was not being disingenuous. I was not referring to errors, or to lack of certainty regarding rules, but to people who seem to make up their own rules and make things less clear in the process. Perhaps it isn't a 'thing', but it appeared to be.

A quick Google says that E E Cummings didn't eschew capitals. His publishers did it for him.

No, OP, it isn't 'a thing'. Maybe just in your world.

I have misspelt willful.

You know how many people think Chris Evans is underpaid? That's how many fucks I give about that, because this is an internet forum, not an English Language A Level paper.

Anyway, tell us more about the people you know who do this, and why it is you are asking a bunch of strangers on the internet, rather than the people you actually know?

I have an AS level in English language and I still am not confident in grammar and punctuation. Internet forums and text messaging/email have made my exposure to the English language such that I am not sure what is correct any more. So posts like yours are really annoying!

E.E. Cummings' publishers styled him 'e.e.' to match the experimental use of lowercase letters in his poetry.

But more often than not, he capitalised his name. His widow wasn't happy with his initials being styled in lowercase by his publisher after he died, and wrote to them saying so, I believe.

What is your educational background, OP?

My bad

Nuff said...

I believe Da Kidz would describe the OP as 'pwned'.

more applause for Smiles

My bad

Nuff said...

Exactly! The irony!

People don't tend to 'make up' their own rules for punctuation. They use what they think is correct - either because they've been taught to do it that way or have seen it done like that.

So why do some people consistently leave a space before puncuation marks? Or separate every thought/sentence with three or four dots? I've seen both of these several times - perhaps they've all copied from the same source; who knows...?

Exactly ! The irony!

The irony was entirely intentional.

Do you not think you've made your point now? Anyone would think you had a chip on your shoulder.

Should one ever use both a hyphen and a semicolon in the same sentence to separate three independent clauses?