To wonder why on Mumsnet there is a smacking minority and in NZ 85% of people seem to want to do it?

[twentypence]

Lies, damn lies and statistics I know. But apparently NZ's new "anti smacking" law is opposed by 85% of New Zealanders.

Now I haven't looked into the proposed law carefully at all - partly because to actually find a fact amongst all the political posturing and soundbites largely because as I don't smack and never will it doesn't matter to me personally whether it becomes illegal or not.

But 85% just seems so high...

Oh, Xenia, how you would LOVE it if some unsuspecting downtrodden SAHM came along wittering about Biblical marriage and how her husband only ever clonked her for her own good

Loads of people smack their children. It does happen and I am sure that it ventures further than just smacking on many occasions around the country which is wrong wrong wrong.

I would say that there are lots of people who use MN who do smack but don't dare to say as they will be jumped on.

Anyway, my point is this, yes smacking is lazy parenting, but not every parent is capable of sitting/explaining/using naughty step.

I smack my son when he has been naughty - shoot me.

There are some very smug parents on this board who don't smack their kids, because
it's VILE/REVOLTING/ABUSE.

Fast forward a few years, which of our kids will be bullies, muggers, rapists, murderers.

It could be mine, we won't know until we are there. I hope that the anti smacking bods understand that I am not as patient as you and want the lesson to be learned in my way, so it doesn't fit with what you do with your kids. Fine. Each to their own.

Yes, I think you're probably right that there are lots of parents who smack but don't post - because they can barely string a sentence together

U R funny greeny

Xenia, can I point out to you again that nowhere in the bible does it say that husbands have the 'right' physically to chastise their wives? It never even says that they should make their wives submit. It says he should love her unconditionally, and the advice to the wives is that they should learn to be submissive. How is learning to listen to your husband the same as being beaten by him?

And it talks much more about caring for and not exasperating your children than it does about punishing them.

I'm neither for or against the new law - it's not on my radar because it won't force me to change as I don't smack anyway. Wouldn't go on a march either way.

Raising the drinking age to 50 would make no difference to me either - I don't drink.

Wouldn't have an opinion is cigarettes were banned - don't smoke.

I'm amazed though that people will appear in the newspaper, on the TV etc. on marches and talk about hitting their children. That's the bit I find really strange.

If I had time to go on a march about hitting kids, then I probably wouldn't smack my kids. I would be the sort of mumma that does stuff like the naughty step and stand in the corner.

I would rather smack my kids and be done with it.

I can't for the life of me see how anyone could consider smacking to be wrong yet use the naughty step as a punishment. THAT is a horrible thing to do to a child. Of course there are some people who will see smacking as unacceptable and abusive yet will find it perfectly ok to isolate and humiliate their children by using such control methods as the 'naughty step'.
As you say Clodhopper, smack and be done with it.

I've never used either. I find love works pretty well, ignoring bad behaviour, rewarding good. Anyway how do you get a child to sit on the step? It would just make me laugh.

Message withdrawn

I have to ask Xenia .. how do you know your nanny's have never smacked .. ok you might have put that into the initial interview and you patently have to work on trust but really as you're proud of having put all your children in full-time (carefully chosen) childcare from the age of 2 weeks you really honestly, hand-on-heart have no true idea how they've been brought up for the vast majority of the week .. particularly under the age of their ability to communicate

That's true Twiglett.

"nanny's" ... nannies

[pedant]

I think greeny has provoked me into posting. I have smacked both my children, sat them both on the naughty step from a young age (1?) but also have an English degree from a reasonable university. That last bit might not always be apparent from my mumsnet postings, I realise. I think twig's comments about "mumsnet opinions" are spot on.

I have only smacked them occasionally, they have sat on the step (I do not prefix it with "naughty") many more times. DS is 6 and he is rarely punished in either of these ways anymore. It is more likely to be a withdrawal of priveleges. He is quite well behaved though so it only happens occasionally.

what she said

although I don't have an English degree I have an Economics degree ..

I was being tongue in cheek about the not being able to string a sentence together, I did put a on the end of it. I think we all know that kittywits can strng a sentence together, for a start

I have also said REPEATEDLY that I don't think a parent who smacks in a moment of blind rage should go to prison or labelled a child abuser. I think in that situation the smack itself is an assault - and an abusive act - but we all make cock-ups, children make you angry, it's life. It's awful, but you can apologise, have a cuddle and move on.

The people I would like to see criminalised/stopped are the ones who use smacking as a calm, thought-out strategy for controlling bad behaviour. The ones who don't think it's wrong to smack. I think that kind of smacking on a regular basis and without regret is child abuse. I know not many people agree with me. And I know such a law would be virtually impossible to enforce, but I think we should have one anyway, because I think laws governing social behaviour are there as a benchmark of what civilised and acceptable behaviour is. I think it would be a good thing for parents and children to know that it isn't OK to hit children.

I am now stepping away from this issue, because it is getting under my skin, and because I have made my point enough times (and people insist on misunderstanding me in any case!).

there

have a good time ladies

no hitting now, do you hear?

Thankyou Greeny. Though I must admit to finding this an increasingly difficult thing to do

I think those of us who have others looking after their small children (or indeed a husband we really trusted) could never know that. Sadly most child abuse is my relatives so it's more likely your husband would be burning the beating a child than a stranger and a lot of parents get into a cycle of tolerance of that because they can't get out of the situation even if they don't engage in it.

I think and all mumsnet nannies will back me up on this, they all have drummed into them at nanny courses never to use physical discipline. In fact nannies are more patient because they haven't been up half the night and aren't trapped at home in a situation they may not like - they're doing work they love. Also clever children become good spies in due course... remembering my girls' reports of one nanny's kissing with tongues with her boyfriend reported back to me in great salacious detail.

Xenia - nanny courses????????

Where I live, people become nannies precisely because it requires no qualifications at all.

And I have seen nannies hit children in public places (playgrounds and shops) just because they're interrupting their chit-chat with other nannies, and no-one bats an eyelid.

Hmm - most nannies here have small children of their own, which they outsource to relatives so they can work during the day.

And lots of nannies sleep most of the day, leaving their charges in a playpen or in front of the TV, because they're too exhausted to do anything else.

That's the cheap childcare economy for you...

In the UK nannies would usually do a 2 year child course. They're very good. Weren't we the first country in the world to provide trained nannies to the world?

there is no legislation in place to say that a nanny has to be qualified in any way, shape or form .. of course then it is up to the employer to decide for themselves and no right-minded individual would employ a nanny with no epxperience / training

OK. But in countries like France (or Spain, or Italy) where childcare is cheap, it is also, very often, nasty.

Trained nannies cost a lot more.