My DD being excluded

[pleasingone]

My DD is in a friendship group of four. They all get along really well and are lovely but 2 of the girls pair off and exclude the other 2, my DD being one of them. She copes / accepts it well.
Tomorrow is an inset day, my DD has been asking the others all week if they can all meet up. Tonight the two girls
have said they're meeting up and have excluded my DD again... one of the other girls mother happens to be a good friend of mine and it's made worse that I actually asked her what was happening last night, she said she didn't know, however it transpires that she is taking the other two out. I accept that this is likely to keep happening as my DD is clearly the third wheel.. it just feels so spiteful and unkind. The forth girl is away this weekend.
I'm supposed to be going out for dinner with this friend tomorrow but I'm so upset to see my DD treated shoddily AIBU to make my excuses and cancel?

I had a best friend in my group of four ... didn't mean they weren't my friend we were just closer

Lots of assumptions there South. We don't know it wasn't a last minute arrangement.

We also don't know why they preferred to go without the OP's daughter.

And we don't know that the mother even knew what the arrangements were, when the OP asked.

My gut reaction tells me the OP put the mum in an awkward position, because she was respecting her DD's right, to go somewhere with a friend of her choice, which we should all be free to do.

But then it's difficult, because no-one on this thread knows whether they're 7 or 17.

grandOlejukeofYork the girls made plans and did not tell the OP's daughter that she was not included, so she was hanging on waiting to hear only to find out she is no included. I think that is a mean thing to do.

Of course people can be friends with other people and do things just two together.

OP I'd just really encourage your dd to make new friends. She may find the new friends are better than the old. Just make sure she does not leave out the forth girl if the fourth girl needs a friend.

kingfishergreen "Why would she be lonely, what should she always NEED anyone?" I think you are very naive if you don't recognize that children (I am guessing we are talking about a teenage or pre-teen girls) don't really want to spend loads of time alone, and often do like to do things with other people.

I'm also guessing you either do not have kids or they have not yet been excluded from plans. It may be normal but it can still be hard to hear your own child left out.

As we get older maybe we get more comfortable with our own company but I can kind of bet you that most teens and pre-teens do not want to be alone while others are off doing activities together.

If the OP's child has time alone and likes it, great, but IMHO most kids want the option of doing things with friends. Because the 4th girls is not around at weekend and evenings then I think they are effectively leaving the OP's dd out. She cannot make them like her more but she can find new friends and I hope she will.

cory school is not like a work situation. School friendships are not like work colleagues.

Sunny I am assuming you are not a child. These things do work out as adults, it is so different being a teen or pre teen.

marymary including other kids so people are not left out of a friendship group is not weird. It is not saying who the kids have to be friends with, it is saying friends do not purposefully leave others out of bigger plans. Not everyone will be able to go to everything. But not inviting one to specific things can be viewed as mean. As the forth girl is not around at weekends, it is effectively leaving one out.

platypus great posts.

MrsOverTheRoad I agree, you should not have a child to sleep over and your dd should not go to the other house. Eventually it will all work out.

"What am I meant to do? Tell the "rejected" friend's Mother "DD says no" or lie? Or am I meant to refuse DD a sleepover with the mate she WANTS to stay with...incase she hurts the other one?"

If you are genuinely asking, I think IMHO if you want to be kind you should tell the other mum your dd likes playing with her daughter but doesn't want her to come for a sleep over or to go to her house for a sleep over. You do not need to give any reasons and you can just say it very plainly as it is.

Then you can make plans for your dd to have whatever sleep over she does want with her other friend and vice versa. We always have only one friend for a sleep over, except for one NOISY party sleepover.

The other mum will hopefully stop asking. My dd has a friend she likes a lot but the other mum had never been keen on sleep overs, she told me, and I accepted that and when my dd asked if soandso could come over for a sleep over I said I'd talked to the mum and it wasn't possible at the moment.

I have no idea what the reason was but I do know when dd stared having sleep overs some kids were sill bed wetting etc and that was an issue, and some parents did not want to reciprocate (and I think that may have been the case) so I'd never pry as to why such a plan was not on.

Said has since been for the big noisy sleep over and slept peacefully through the biggest loudest sleep over ever!

As a mum I would much rather be told that something is a no go than to keep asking because the other parent is evasive.

Italiangreyhound totally agree. It's so hard to watch them so upset, had it just the other week, but we had a cuddle and a movie night (with popcorn!) And it's amazing how quickly they snap out of it and it all changes!

Much easier with dd2 because I have been down that road with dd1 (and get apparently I still "don't understand" I watched dd1 ( who couldn't possibly make new friends slowly do just that! They both still have issues, but I feel my job as mum is to try to help them deal with these as they arise and not get too involved (in terms of the other girls/their parents) Not saying I get much thanks for my efforts, but hey, that's parenthood! As long as they can come and talk to me, I'll keep trying to help/ be supportive. Even if it means I need a few glasses of wine later on!!!!

Yes Platypus my dd is 12 and I get no thanks either.

I wonder if some posters have just not been through this. Or maybe confuse this with a weekend or evening plan when a child may choose a friend or a group or activity.

An inset day, when the kids have no school, is a special event, quite rare. If they were at school presumably all the girls would be together at school. The one who is not around at the weekend is off and the two remaining friends have made plans without the OP's daughter and only told her at the last minute.

To people who think this is all fine, I guess you were never the child who was left out or your child wasn't. Yes, it can be a time to encourage resilience. But it is not nice. And I can bet dollars to donuts if the tables were turned and one of the other two girls were left out, she would feel this way too.

BUT there is nothing the OP or her dd can do about it, so OP if you are free or can get the day off work I would do something absolutely fabulous with your dd. Her choice, like a spa day, if you can afford it, or movie fest, or shopping, or whatever, that is what I would do.

Oh, I took my dd ice skating once, she loved it!

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs I wish you'd been around to give me parenting classes, your girls are so lucky.

I wouldn't cancel your plans, the other mother may really have not known for sure

I can't see how OP's DD isn't being excluded.

It's four friends, they know F4 isn't around. OP's DD has asked them lots of times times to do something, they left her hanging on and now have announced they are doing something together and OP's DD is at home by herself. How lovely.

Normal (teen? Who knows?!) behaviour, but hardly shocking that the DD is upset.

As others have said the other Mum probably felt awkward about it. I'd probably still meet up with her.

I've always told my DC to have as many friends as possible, that way you'll never be lonely & always have someone.

really?

I have to say that whilst it's not NICE to be left out, it's not a right to be asked to meet your friends.

You can ASK but they have every right to prefer not to.

The Mother will have felt awkward.

I don't blame her either. But should she have interfered in her child's social life? At 12?? No of course not!

These are almost teenagers. They are on the cusp of it anyway...they make their own arrangements.

Anchor there's nothing wrong with that advice.

I have told my DC to try to be pleasant and friendly to everyone. It's tantamount to the same thing but OP worded it differently.

It doesn't sound like a friendship group of 4. Two are good friends & they'll include the others when it suits them. If possible I'd try & do something nice with your daughter.

Italiangreyhound do you fight for the misfits and oddballs and socially inept loners to be included in your daughter's friendship group? For every friendship group there are probably children who weren't allowed to join in the first place for whatever reason. Is that wrong? Should children be forced to play/spend time with children they don't want to, not just now and again, but regularly?

'Misfits, oddballs and socially inept loners' is not my perception of these children (I was one of them), but probably is the perception of some, maybe many, children and adults.

I'm guessing that they're younger than teens as the friend's mum is taking them out.

Does your dd really only have 3 friends? That's a shame. You are right it's important to have a lot of friends, not for the aspect of being lonely. It bully proofs children to a certain extent and they know they don't have to bother with people, who are nasty or indifferent to them. I would perhaps change the way I talk to your dd about this. She sounded begging and desperate and likely will put these girls off further unfortunately. I don't know how old your dd is but play dates with other children would be good.

I talk to my dd (9) a lot. She has a love/hate relationship with one of her best friends - she has 3 best friends and other friends besides. The one bestie has a more difficult life and it shows in her emotional health and I talk to dd about how she's had lots of mummies and to be kind to her etc - fostered, adopted and now divorced adoptive parent. Dad lives with a new partner so lots of turmoil. When they fall out, she knows she has choices about who to play with. And how to end the argument - either ignore the friend (I discourage this), go up to her the next day and start playing or say, let's be friends and forget about yesterday etc.

Dd is now very popular. She wasn't a few years ago. It took a difficult event, where she was dropped by her absolute bestie in yr1 after a misunderstanding with the mother, who said something to her dd and the girl ignored dd for 6 months. It took me reframing the situation, talking lots and engineering play dates for dd to find lots of friends. Looking back, this was a massive blessing as no way would I want my dd to be beholden to this one girl, who is not very mature.

Take this situation as an opportunity and stop talking about these girls as mean or singling out your dd otherwise she will be very damaged as I was - and to a certain extent still am.

Thanks for your replies, many have given me something to consider and helpful advice (& others from people who clearly have no experience of having young teenage children!)

Sometimes I do things with just one other friend. Oddly enough I don't set up an event on Facebook and invite everyone I know.

Am I exclusive?

@italiangreyhound

*kingfishergreen "Why would she be lonely, what should she always NEED anyone?" I think you are very naive if you don't recognize that children (I am guessing we are talking about a teenage or pre-teen girls) don't really want to spend loads of time alone, and often do like to do things with other people.

I'm also guessing you either do not have kids or they have not yet been excluded from plans. It may be normal but it can still be hard to hear your own child left out.*

I've been on the outside of friendship groups at various points in my life, and what I've learned is that neediness is the world's biggest turn-off.

I think it's really important to both sympathise that it feels awful to be left out, but to teach your kids that they shouldn't rely on other people's whim for their happiness. Maybe at 7 or 8 that won't mean much, but as they grow up it'll come in useful.

That's just me though and the way I view the world. Other people, even if they've had identical experiences, have other opinions, that's literally how humans work.

If you'd have told us the age, it would have been helpful.

Dragon wtf? It's NORMAL to only have three friends for some people. For others, they have a larger group of less close friends.

PRe teens and young teens do tend towards a group of 4-6 closer mates...so no idea why you think OP's DD's three friends are "a shame"

I could have written your post Mummyoflittledragon! We went through the same situation with our DD earlier this year. Love/hate, on/off friendship took a nasty turn when the friend's parent announced in front of my DD that their DD didn't want any more playdates because she was bored playing with her. I said fine (through gritted teeth, while mopping DD's tears and shooting daggers at parent for being so fucking insensitive) because what else could I say? Bully her into staying friends? Then I set about organising multiple playdates with girls at school that my DD hadn't had much to do with until that point because the other friendship was so insular. Upshot is my DD has loads more friends now, is much more confident, happier and relaxed about dealing with friendship issues and the other girl is now telling DD she wants to come to our house again (parent hasn't dared ask though and I shan't be organising anything until they do).

OP, don't be too cross with the mum for lying, she was probably trying to spare yours and DD's feelings. See my para above to see why that's no bad thing!

Mrsovertheroad.

When I made my comment, I did not know the age of the children.

Back at you . Wtf. It may be "NORMAL". But it's NOT working for this girl. Perhaps you misunderstood the tone of my post. I'm empathising. As it it's a shame for her. It's sad and upsetting.

Moreover, you are arguing against yourself because then you say 4-6 mates is normal. 6 is double 3. Some people could argue about anything.