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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Charlie Gard 6

999 replies

CaveMum · 13/07/2017 10:10

New thread so that we can await this morning's hearing.

Let's try to keep this one as sensible and measured as the past 5 threads have been.

Fingers crossed that this can all be resolved today and that Charlie and his parents can find peace.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
pasanda · 13/07/2017 14:48

Now this:

Apologies, my mistake. The mice were being treated for a slightly different condition. The witness believes enough similarity to try it.

from twitter

Fancythat69 · 13/07/2017 14:48

The mice were being treated for a slightly different condition

mrsRosaPimento · 13/07/2017 14:50

When I read about this my head says turn the ventilator off. Let him be free from his broken body.
But when I think of my dcs my heart says try the therapy.
I hope to never be in the position of his parents. Unless you have had to switch off your child's life support you can't judge Charlie's parents. I think they are trying to get every possible treatment before they give up. They will look for every sign that he's still there. I'm not sure the developments in medicine do us any favours. They give and sustain life but put hope when there might not be any. I expect Charlie looks asleep.

GabsAlot · 13/07/2017 14:50

enough similarity?

thats like saying all cancer is the same

littlebrownbag · 13/07/2017 14:51

There is a male poster on the CA fb page who is responding to some comments with clear, factual statements. The responses he is getting are generally bewildered "don't understand". I'm afraid that this really is a debat of emotion v fact and while the two sides are speaking in such different languages, Charlie's parents are never going to accept the other side.

I really fear for their mental health, I hope someone somehow can reach them to provide the help they need.

SomeDyke · 13/07/2017 14:51

I thought the issue was they hadn't been tested in mice for this PARTICULAR variant if mitochonodrial disease (there are various types/genetic defects involved)?? So, possibly relevant but not his exact case (for which I don't think they have a mouse model, and as others have said, it would take quite a while to develop one).
But I would take this as why the doctors have SOME reasons to believe it might work in this case (brain damage aside as I understand it), or would be shown to work in mice if they had a model. Whereas previously, they had not even shown it passed the blood brain barrier, NOW this seems to show that it can in this other case??? Because there were SOME effects on the brain...........

I'm NOT a medic BTW, just a scientist.

ShatnersWig · 13/07/2017 14:51

I have yet to hear anything to change my mind that what they want to do is an experiment rather than treatment.

meddie · 13/07/2017 14:52

were the mice severely brain damaged prior to receiving nucleosides such that they were unable to breathe and did the nucelosides reverse that process. Surely thats the important point.

GabsAlot · 13/07/2017 14:52

thy would considr using it rgardless of no animal testing

jesus what is he a lab rat

flatbreads · 13/07/2017 14:52

but mrsRosa if the treatment couldn't reverse the dreadful damage already sustained and merely maintained his current condition - then would you say try the therapy? I had this discussion with a friend at the weekend and I think people don't see past the 'give him a chance' chant.

alltouchedout · 13/07/2017 14:53

But when I think of my dcs my heart says try the therapy.

Really? When I think of my dcs being in such a situation (and it hurts so much to even imagine it, I know I cannot come close to comprehending the agony of parents who have been and are going through it), my heart says to let them rest.

ShatnersWig · 13/07/2017 14:53

I'd gladly shoot those horrible fucking doctors between the eyes god forgive me!!

I don't think he would. Sick.

Dustbunny1900 · 13/07/2017 14:54

I'm impressed with this judge. Maybe judges are more compassionate over there but this one is very professional , fair, and while he is no-non sense he's being VERY understanding and calm about the outbursts/walking out of court etc. I've been up in front of my fair share of judges and it's shocking me.
I did hear him say that it won't be decided today though? Poor Charlie

SomeDyke · 13/07/2017 14:54

"Surely thats the important point."
That's the point the judge focused on earlier CAN the damage be reversed? The GOSH statements says 'no real prospect of any quality of life', which I assume means no given that they also said they in effect hoped he was 'beyond experience'.

jellypi3 · 13/07/2017 14:54

"His preference would be to have data from animal testing before trying it on humans but he said if there was a need for a compassionate use they would consider proceeding without animal testing"

Gobsmacked. So they'd rather have the data from animal trials but will test on a poor child, with unknown outcomes and risks, because the media circus says so...

GabsAlot · 13/07/2017 14:55

. but he said if there was a need for a compassionate use they would consider proceeding without animal testing. 2/2
Reply on TwitterRetweetLike
@SkyFixerJim
3m

His preference would be to have data from animal testing before trying it on humans... 1/2

GabsAlot · 13/07/2017 14:55

sorry x post

SerfTerf · 13/07/2017 14:55

I'm impressed with this judge. Maybe judges are more compassionate over there but this one is very professional , fair, and while he is no-non sense he's being VERY understanding and calm about the outbursts/walking out of court etc.

Yes, I don't see how he can be faulted. Very impressive.

DorotheaBeale · 13/07/2017 14:56

This expert witness isn't coming out very strongly in favour of giving the treatment, is he? Lots of he believes this and would consider that, but little hard evidence. Unless Armstrong is intending to bring that out in detailed questioning.

ShatnersWig · 13/07/2017 14:56

They need to test these things in animals how about use the lying animals from GOSH. but then again those animals don't have a heart.

How about some volunteers from the Barmy? No?

flatbreads · 13/07/2017 14:56

It won't reverse the catastrophic damage caused already though so really what is the point of experimental treatment that might prolong his suffering? It seems so obvious and yet clearly it isn't to many..

GabsAlot · 13/07/2017 14:57

skyjim giving more details if anyon interested

LapinR0se · 13/07/2017 14:57

Gard: Armstrong is taking his New York witness through his evidence.

cjt110 · 13/07/2017 14:58

This expert witness isn't coming out very strongly in favour of giving the treatment, is he? Lots of he believes this and would consider that, but little hard evidence. Unless Armstrong is intending to bring that out in detailed questioning. Yes, it appears unfounded or supposition. It would be much better to say yes it will or no it wont.

LapinR0se · 13/07/2017 14:58

NY witness: from evidence provided by GOSH, I have not seen signs of structural brain damage. Might be dysfunction