DH in court over train ticket

[user1497444078]

Apologies is advance for an essay. More of a WWYD than an Aibu.

DH commutes to work via train daily. Train is at 6:15 so he always purchases a ticket off the conductor (no means of buying at station before 6:30) and always by card.

Several month ago the card machine wasn't working and the conductor told DH he would need to pay a fine for 'failure to buy a ticket'. He had no ID and was asks to write his name and address down (which he did), but after a month and no news we forgot all about it.

We then moved house.

On Monday this week we received a letter saying he failed to meet a court date for 'evasion and refusal to pay for a ticket' and now needs to pay £700. They must sent letters to previous address which we never received.

DH had to go to court today and was advised if he pleads not guilty to the evasion and refusal to pay charge he would have to go to court and pay court fees and most likely the refusal to pay charge. If he pleads guilty however he was told he would need to pay original ticket plus a small fine.

DH is fuming as he never refused to pay, the card machine wasn't working. He has proof money sufficient money was in the account on that day, and proof of change of address, but says he will have to plead guilty as it will be cheaper/less hassle. DH is also questioning why he was so honest to write to down his real name/address as it's given us unnecessary hassle.

At 19weeks into first pregnancy I can really do without this stress.

So WWYD in this situation? Is it worth contacting the papers to highlight the injustice? Maybe I'm just hormonal. I know some ppl will argue he should have bought ticket in advance, but he has done the same routine on daily commutes for 5years+.

whn my husband goes to buy a ticket an machine isnt working he just tlls the conductor on the train and pays othr end

never been accused of not paying

Lurking and all others who've commented about ticketing systems (this is not aimed at OP before anyone jumps on me) privatisation has made upgrades to the ticketing system more difficult, not less. You need each TOC to buy in to any new system, which is a problem with the new till roll style tickets being issued on some TOCs, which cannot be accepted by TFL ticket gates meaning that cross London tickets cannot be issued on board by staff working for TOCs with the new system.

Print at home and mobile tickets are increasingly widely available so it may be worth checking for your normal journey if you haven't done so recently. Mind you, they have their own headaches!

I don't know why you're getting antsy with us OP, it's your husband who fucked up by not paying on arrival at his destination station and following up on the paperwork, not us.

We are only saying what the judge would've said if he'd pleaded not guilty OP. Or they are the questions I'd ask.

And you should know that AIBU gives far far less lenient judgements than any court in the land

At the end of the day he had many many opportunities to buy a ticket, the day before, a season, at his destination station, with cash on the train and he didn't. And he's been fined. I think you have to just swallow it

If you are short of money, and even if you aren't, I really would recommend he gets a season ticket. If he commutes daily in peak time , or even 3-4 days a week, it will save hundreds of pounds over buying a day ticket each day.
But not if he is an off-peak traveller.

Mini I'm not 'getting antsy', I'm responding to narrow minded judgmental and sarcastic comments with likewise comments. I'd you have issue with this then you're under no obligation to stay and participate.

It is possible the OP's DH doesn't know he can buy a season ticket and also doesn't know that he could have bought a ticket for the journey he'd just made at the destination station; especially if he was mis-advised by the guard.

There was a thread a few weeks ago where a MNetter pointed out someone who got on at her station but didn't speak up to buy a ticket when the guard came round. Loads of people told her she was a busybody and it was none of her business, etc, etc. On this thread though, the veracity of the OP's story is being questioned and her DH tried to buy a ticket, but couldn't.

But as several people have already pointed out, op, he did dodge the fare!
He was unable to buy a ticket on the actual train, fair enough, but he walked out of the station on arrival without buying a ticket there.
He knew he'd had a free journey but left without paying anyway.
You (and more crucially the court) have only his word that he didn't do this on a regular basis.
How did he manage to get through the barriers, btw?
He has no defence, really. If he'd paid he'd be able to provide proof of that now and this wouldn't have got off the starting blocks.

It is a legal requirement to buy in advance, it's not just recommended. FFS, just because you don't like the advice being given doesn't mean it's not correct.

www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/NRCOC.pdf

Page 4:

You must:
• Have a valid ticket or tickets for the whole of your journey, at the time you want to travel and on the route and trains you want to use. Unless otherwise indicated, you must purchase your ticket before boarding the train you intend to use.

Page 5:

If you travel in a train (a) without a ticket; or (b) the circumstances described in Conditions 10, 11, 12, 18, 19, 22, 30, 35 and 39 apply;
you will be liable to pay the full single fare or full return fare or, if appropriate, a Penalty Fare (see Condition 4) for your journey. You will not be entitled to any discounts or special terms unless either:

(i) at the station where you started your journey, there was no ticket office open

and

there were no self-service ticket machines or no self-service ticket machines were in full working order

and

in Penalty Fares areas you bought a Permit to Travel unless no Permit to Travel issuing machine was in full working order

OR

(ii) the notices and other publications issued by the Train Company in whose train you are travelling indicate that you can buy tickets in that train.

In circumstances where (i) or (ii) apply, you only need to pay the fare that you would have paid if you had bought a ticket immediately before your journey.

Sapphire, the buying before he boards thing is critical in this case, it's not finger wagging, it makes a huge fucking difference. If he could have and chose not to he hasn't got a leg to stand on which is why I've asked if there is a ticket office at the station and whether there is also a machine.

To be blunt, I don't think OP has all the details off her DH. And that doesn't make her or him guilty but there's a reason this sounds implausible to me, and to others. The issuing of a fine on the train by the conductor which could be paid later is inconsistent with the conductor's machine not working, which is why I mentioned UFN which is what this could be. If OP doesn't want to give any more info that's fine but she won't get any help from railforums without it either.

And OP, I know a hell of a lot more about the railway than you clearly do!

If you can buy tickets online, could he have bought one on his phone when the conductor told him he wasn't able to buy one on the train? I have no idea, I'm just wondering.

Lurking and all others who've commented about ticketing systems (this is not aimed at OP before anyone jumps on me) privatisation has made upgrades to the ticketing system more difficult, not less. You need each TOC to buy in to any new system, which is a problem with the new till roll style tickets being issued on some TOCs, which cannot be accepted by TFL ticket gates meaning that cross London tickets cannot be issued on board by staff working for TOCs with the new system.

Funny. Privatisation was supposed to make rail travel cheaper, easier, more comfortable and more reliable.

I guess none out of four is a win by UK standards ?

Print at home and mobile tickets are increasingly widely available so it may be worth checking for your normal journey if you haven't done so recently. Mind you, they have their own headaches!

being "increasingly widely available" is of little comfort when you are one of the ones it's not available to. The traditional approach to using a train is to work out where you want to go from, and where you want to go to, and find the train(s) that do it. Although there is a case to be made for working out a service that has e-tickets, and using those trains ?????

The heavy sarcasm is not directed at any poster here, just a world weariness that is having to put up with British Trains for the past 40 years.

%If you can buy tickets online, could he have bought one on his phone when the conductor told him he wasn't able to buy one on the train?

Massive if, followed by the spotty 3G (let alone 4G) coverage on some lines ... (if the train doesn't have WiFi).

I Wouldn't plead guilty. I would see if it's possible to make a freedom of information to find out how many passengers on that train where also not able to buy a ticket. This would then show the machine wasn't working.
But of course the judge could easily chuck back why wasn't a ticket bought at the other end. Or through using the details given by the inspector. Last time something like this happened I was given details of how I could pay to avoid a fine.

Indeed. I hesitated over whether to post about e tickets and print at home being increasingly widely available in case it sounded patronising but thought it worth it on the off chance someone reading is prompted to check and finds they can now use them.

As for the supposed improvements from privatisation well, I wasn't around when those promises were made but it seems incredible to me that no one at the time could foresee the issues ahead and the complexities it would bring.

To those who are asking how he travelled without a ticket, there are still stations that are unmanned at the time the OP's husband was travelling, 6am. This means no barriers and no ticket office. In these circumstances, you're meant to buy from the machine.

I've had a circumstance like this where I was meant to buy a permit to travel at the station which would be exchanged for a ticket by the conductor. On one occasion, the machine was broken. The conductor then couldn't accept card payments. He really wanted to fine me, but I had no cash for a fine (the permit to travel was something like £1) and it wasn't my fault that both the ticket machine and his card machine were faulty. Some other passengers intervened and he accepted that I could purchase my ticket at my destination.

I'd suggest OP's husband looks elsewhere for advice because this discussion is just making assumptions on very little information!

It's utterly irrelevant how many other passengers were unable to buy a ticket on the same train . They all had the opportunity to pay on arrival.
And, more prosaically; they're not being done for fare evasion. Op's DH is.

I'd suggest OP's husband looks elsewhere for advice because this discussion is just making assumptions on very little information!

Lol. Wonder why that is. Looking elsewhere won't help unless OP is willing to give them information she won't give us.

He walked out of the station on arrival without buying a ticket there. He knew he had a free journey but left without paying anyway

Flogging
Point out anyway on the thread where I said this or gave this info? The arrival station which, similar to the departure station, is small has no barriers, no office and no ticket machine, so there was no opportunity to pay on arrival.

So DH didn't dodge the fair. We don't all live in big cities with ticket barriers, it is conceivable to commute from a small town to another small town.

No barriers, no office and no ticket machine? Is he sure the train hadn't just stopped at a signal?

Flogging

Oh Flogging that made me laugh.

Op how do other people buy tickets for the journey in reverse?

The station near home doesn't have anything to buy a ticket. The NORMAL thing to do is go in the train and buy th sticker from the conductor. Some people do that everyday. It's very clear, they know each other by their first name.

The cost of day return is the same (by 10p) that the cost of a single.

It has happened a few times that the conductor didn't turn up at all so no way to buy the ticket.
I usually just buy a single to come back. Because it's the same price than the return!
It's also often the case that I don't have time to stop at the ticket office on arrival but have more time when I come back home.

It certainly isn't the case that this is only a way to work the system and avoid paying your fares. Especially because, on our route, you see the conductor in 90% of the cases, if not more.

Oh fgs, they buy it with the conductor!! Just lie the OP DH wanted to do on the way.

I agree OP, there are plenty of stations on my route that have no ticket office (or machine to buy a ticket), and certainly NOT at 6.30am.

If he gave his address, how did the correspondence go to a different one? How did they have this different one?