DH in court over train ticket

[user1497444078]

Apologies is advance for an essay. More of a WWYD than an Aibu.

DH commutes to work via train daily. Train is at 6:15 so he always purchases a ticket off the conductor (no means of buying at station before 6:30) and always by card.

Several month ago the card machine wasn't working and the conductor told DH he would need to pay a fine for 'failure to buy a ticket'. He had no ID and was asks to write his name and address down (which he did), but after a month and no news we forgot all about it.

We then moved house.

On Monday this week we received a letter saying he failed to meet a court date for 'evasion and refusal to pay for a ticket' and now needs to pay £700. They must sent letters to previous address which we never received.

DH had to go to court today and was advised if he pleads not guilty to the evasion and refusal to pay charge he would have to go to court and pay court fees and most likely the refusal to pay charge. If he pleads guilty however he was told he would need to pay original ticket plus a small fine.

DH is fuming as he never refused to pay, the card machine wasn't working. He has proof money sufficient money was in the account on that day, and proof of change of address, but says he will have to plead guilty as it will be cheaper/less hassle. DH is also questioning why he was so honest to write to down his real name/address as it's given us unnecessary hassle.

At 19weeks into first pregnancy I can really do without this stress.

So WWYD in this situation? Is it worth contacting the papers to highlight the injustice? Maybe I'm just hormonal. I know some ppl will argue he should have bought ticket in advance, but he has done the same routine on daily commutes for 5years+.

Tsho Tsho
Thanks for useful advice, will defo look into this.

Standard of advice is pretty shocking... too many Columbo's trying to ascertain why DH doesn't have a season pass, yet the train company who issue fines when their faulty equipment fails to issue tickets are above reproach. Go figure!

There are a few things that don't add up with this story, not least the idea that season tickets aren't available at your station, OP.

Ticketing is complex and confusing, as evidenced by some of the misinformation and half truths on this thread. You say that he can't buy a ticket before boarding because he boards at 0615. What happens after that? Does a ticket office open? Is there a ticket machine when the ticket office isn't open? What happened when your DP got to his destination station, did he go to buy a ticket or just walk out?

The policy in place across the UK is that you must buy a ticket before you board where facilities exist to do so. What happens if you don't is different from one TOC to another. What constitutes an opportunity to pay isn't always simple - some ticket machines accept card only so as long as you intend to pay in cash (and obviously have the cash on you) you would be able to buy on board in those circumstances. If a ticket machine fails you can buy on board etc. However, custom and practice on some lines is that you can buy a ticket onboard (tends to be more rural areas, though not exclusively) even if there are facilities to buy in advance (often places which have only recently got ticket machines, or have one on one platform only etc). Many TOCs are stamping down on fare evasion and unfortunately given that a lot of passengers are of the 'pay only when challenged' variety, that includes buying on board where you could have bought before boarding. Depending on the company and the conductor's line manager, conductors are often told to use their discretion, so an elderly passenger boarding at a station with only a ticket machine is probably not evading their fare, they tend to prefer a transaction with a person and will wave the conductor down as soon as they see them. However, this obviously becomes a grey area - if Marigold can do it, why can't I? For that reason, companies are certainly trying to encourage their staff to take a more consistent (and unfortunately therefore less sympathetic approach to selling tickets)

I wondered initially whether your DP had fallen foul of this crack down, and boards from a station with a ticket machine but one from which custom and practice allows passengers to buy on the train. If the conductor's machine wasn't working but your DP could have bought from the station machine then technically he has no defence, regardless of the many tickets he's previously bought on board.

Then I wondered whether regardless of the ticketing facilities at the station your DP did try and buy on board but when he couldn't he walked past an opportunity to pay at his destination station.

The season ticket thing makes me dubious though.

Suspicious as I am, the discount thing is no big deal, to all those wondering. He might have a railcard which isn't time restricted, or his ticket might be expensive enough that the minimum railcard fare restrictions early in the morning don't apply. There are several scenarios where daily tickets discounted with a railcard are cheaper than a season ticket.

There are a few things that don't add up with this story, not least the idea that season tickets aren't available at your station, OP.

I agree

If he couldn't buy ticket from conductor, he should have bought one on arrival at station out of honesty. He could then have used this in his defence should issues be raised in future. Essentially, he seems to have hoped he got away with a free trip after card machine not working. I would frown upon that as a judge.

Excellent point katieks

Exactly katie - as I said above, I've had to do that several times and have never been penalised.

I still don't understand why the OP's DH pleaded guilty or why his station doesn't offer monthly travelcards.

Also, OP, being rude about the quality of advice you're being given is a bit much - you do know this is the internet, don't you? We're not solicitors being paid to advise you.

Part of me would want to fight the injustice of this, the rest of me would just say that They won't let me win this, and accept that I have been singled out for extra tax privileges.

Quite apart from saving money by buying a monthly / weekly ticket, it would save all this ball ache over buying tickets / broken machines / having to carry cash / faffing around.

He can make what's called a 'statutory declaration' he can swear under oath that he wasn't aware of any court proceedings against him and the courts can squash it. That's what I did. He needs to book a statutory declaration at your local court and take all relevant documents. And he needs to do this within 21 days of becoming aware of any court proceedings/fines against him.

Several month ago the card machine wasn't working and the conductor told DH he would need to pay a fine for 'failure to buy a ticket'. He had no ID and was asks to write his name and address down (which he did), but after a month and no news we forgot all about it.

This is one of the things that doesn't ring true to me but having read it again I'm wondering whether your DH was asked to sign an unpaid fares notice; this is in no way a fine but it's possible that not having followed up the UFN or responding to paperwork from the TOC would have escalated this to court.

There is no good reason why he couldn't buy a ticket in advance (online) for his 'daily' commute (your words). So there is no injustice.

I did a long commute for a year and bought tickets every day. I think it was because I could use a railcard for the daily tickets but not for a season ticket.

This exact thing happened to me except it was a parking fine given by police. And I hadn't moved house - they just sent court dates to wrong address and I never received the fine. I refused to go to court (5 times) and wrote to the Procurator Fiscal stating what had happened and that I was unwilling to take time off work for the sake of a parking ticket. It was a waste of tax
Payers money etc. Eventually thy just sent me the £120 fine which I paid

Oh, ferchrissake.

He just doesn't have a pass/advance ticket, OK? Doesn't matter why, or whether he's a fool for not doing so, or what any of you do or did in your infinite commuting wisdom.

He couldn't pay – not didn't, couldn't –because of THE TRAIN COMPANY'S FAILURE. Not his.

Sapphire it very much matters exactly why he didn't have a ticket before he boarded. The season ticket thing doesn't matter except that several of us are wondering if the OP's DH has told her the whole story given that what he's told her about season tickets isn't correct.

It may still be that it was entirely the train company's failure that he couldn't pay there and then (as long we the station he left at was also unmanned) but if he was asked to pay the fare within x days (an unpaid fares notice, which is not a penalty) and didn't IT IS THE OP'S DH'S FAILURE.

katieks

There is no means of buying a ticket at the station before 6:30am thats what the op says. How does your comment help?

There are a few things that don't add up with this story, not least the idea that season tickets aren't available at your station, OP

they are not always available from ticket machines and if the ticket office isn't open, they are not available. That said, you can pop down at a weekend and get one - that's what I used to do to avoid queues in the morning (it was never worth buying online as you needed to collect them from the same machine everyone else was using to buy a ticket so you couldn't save time that way).

I think you can buy monthly season tickets from our machines now but it was only recently that that changed - before that you could only buy weekly, and you could not even buy a ticket for the next day until after 3pm. The ticket office is often closed when it should not be, so I've had to drive down the road to the next (bigger) station on two occasions.

It is about time you could buy a ticket online and print it at home.

The train company aren't "stealing money from your unborn child". Your DH boarded the train without having bought a ticket for the journey. When he did that he was opening himself up to a fine. Just because conductors are usually reasonable and let him buy a ticket that's not an excuse to get on a train without a ticket for the very reason he's now in this situation.

He then failed to chase it up, moved house and didn't get his mail redirected and now is in a pickle.

I would have fought my corner far, far sooner but at this stage he should plead guilty and pay the fine

Horrid, she means the station he arrived at at the end of his journey.

lurking my parents live by a small station with no office /ticket machine. The only means of buying a ticket is in the train. So if they decide to go into town one day are you saying the rule is they better hope the card machine is working otherwise a £4 journey could cost them £30+??

No. I am saying the bottom line is that it's up to the train company how they take payment.

one train company I know of makes it a requirement that in the event of a ticket machine not working the train company has to be contacted in advance before commencing a journey - hence the phone number.

As I grumbled pointed out upthread, it's a fucking disgrace in the UK in 2017 that we haven't been able to advance to (a) a single ticketing system that is (b) paperless. I'm in my 50s now, and found British Railways antediluvian in the 80s, but I really didn't think they could get worse.

Mulled, OP said monthly passes weren't available from her station. It may be that it's just the way it's worded but if there is a ticket office then season tickets are available. As you say, it may be that the ticket office isn't open when OP's DH wants it to be, but they are available. They can be bought at the destination station too (or other ticket offices in the vicinity). Other interpretation is that her station doesn't issue monthly passes which I'd be intrigued to hear about.

People are banging on about the season ticket/advance payment thing in a really annoying and unedifying holier-than-thou way.

Maxima, the 'unborn child' comment has been addressed and the OP has said it was a joke, just not in foot-high letters with a klaxon.

Sapphire

Exactly! Thank you!

Too many poundshop detectives on here attempting to prove their conspiracy theories and win brownie points with their fellow theorists. Take off the tinfoil hats Ffs.

It's recommended to buy a ticket in advance but there's no legal requirement...that's why conductors have ticket machines! But for the overwhelming posters no acknowledgement of train companies responsibility to have replacement equipment or their 'guilty til proven innocent' mentality that allows them to issue fines willy nilly, or how the appeal process isnt conducted by an independent company(conflict of interest)....nope instead it's 'he buys tickets everyday?' hmmmmm=train dodger!! Well done!

hope if I ever end up in court the oppositions legal representation is one of the keyboard warriors on here.

Couldn't have shown his bank statements to prove he pays using his card usually?

I think he's telling you porkies