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Original poster

DH in court over train ticket

263 replies

user1497444078 · 12/07/2017 11:54

Apologies is advance for an essay. More of a WWYD than an Aibu.

DH commutes to work via train daily. Train is at 6:15 so he always purchases a ticket off the conductor (no means of buying at station before 6:30) and always by card.

Several month ago the card machine wasn't working and the conductor told DH he would need to pay a fine for 'failure to buy a ticket'. He had no ID and was asks to write his name and address down (which he did), but after a month and no news we forgot all about it.

We then moved house.

On Monday this week we received a letter saying he failed to meet a court date for 'evasion and refusal to pay for a ticket' and now needs to pay £700. They must sent letters to previous address which we never received.

DH had to go to court today and was advised if he pleads not guilty to the evasion and refusal to pay charge he would have to go to court and pay court fees and most likely the refusal to pay charge. If he pleads guilty however he was told he would need to pay original ticket plus a small fine.

DH is fuming as he never refused to pay, the card machine wasn't working. He has proof money sufficient money was in the account on that day, and proof of change of address, but says he will have to plead guilty as it will be cheaper/less hassle. DH is also questioning why he was so honest to write to down his real name/address as it's given us unnecessary hassle.

At 19weeks into first pregnancy I can really do without this stress.

So WWYD in this situation? Is it worth contacting the papers to highlight the injustice? Maybe I'm just hormonal. I know some ppl will argue he should have bought ticket in advance, but he has done the same routine on daily commutes for 5years+.

OP posts:
Goingtobeawesome · 12/07/2017 13:00

The company are not stealing money from your unborn baby. I get you're upset but no need to be ridiculous.

Good idea to always carry some cash in future. There will always be an occasion where cards can't be accepted.

Orangetoffee · 12/07/2017 13:03

jellybean85
Actually if you didn't re direct mail you should probably go visit your old house and see if there's any other important post/court summons!!

That's what I was thinking

Roomba · 12/07/2017 13:06

My ex had something similar (not fare evasion, but didn't receive a summons due to moving house).

He needs to attend court and ask to swear a Statutory Declaration, which is essentially a form he should complete and then read aloud under oath to the Magistrates. It declares that he never received the original summons. They should then dismiss the conviction and will probably send the case back to the transport police to start the process all over again (so he'll get the first letter advising of a penalty again, sent to the correct address, which he can then appeal as per the usual process).

Because it has gone through the full process of penalty notice, then summons, then conviction and fine and now summons for non payment, him trying to deal with it via the train company or press will achieve nothing. The circumstances around him actually getting the penalty aren't relevant at this stage, he needs the whole conviction dismissing and to start again - then he can explain what happened when he appeals and they may consider his argument is reasonable. At this point, he needs to go to the court and make the Magistrates aware of what has happened. They deal with stuff like this all the time, and will then talk him through how to sort this out.

user1483617032 · 12/07/2017 13:07

you can't pay for train tickets on train anymore, this is because some people managed to get away with it without being inspected by a conductor. They do it on trams too in Nottingham.

Original poster
user1497444078 · 12/07/2017 13:08

Our station doesn't offer monthly passes and in any case DH gets a significant discount off his tickets, so buying daily tickets isn't a significant cost.

We have proof via daily bank statements that he pays every day.

BTW the comment about stealing money from my unborn was clearly a joke Hmm

OP posts:
bbcessex · 12/07/2017 13:08

I also commute flexibly.. sometimes 5 days a week, sometimes 3 or 4. It's cheaper to buy daily tickets.

Ticket office opens at 6.30am but my train is 6.06am.. I usually get my ticket from machine the night before, but if it's not working then I take a picture of the error message and pay at the other end.

I have had the odd ticket barrier guy try and fine me for this though so I can see how your DH has ended up in this situation.

nauticant · 12/07/2017 13:09

OP: you should have included in your post:

THE FOLLOWING IS A JOKE

HERE IS THE JOKE: Evil train comoany stealing money from my unborn child Angry

THAT WAS A JOKE

bbcessex · 12/07/2017 13:10

OP.. assuming you're in the U.K.. all commuter routes offer weekly, monthly and annual passes.. do you may want to query DH if he's told you that...

ShotsFired · 12/07/2017 13:11

@TinklyLittleLaugh To be honest, we live rurally, with unmanned stations on our line. Many people only buy a ticket if the conductor comes along.

Those people are going to be stuffed when they stop the service as unprofitable then. After all they can only work out usage if people pay for their tickets!

Goingtobeawesome · 12/07/2017 13:12

Jokes aren't meant to come with angry faces.

Good luck.

Roomba · 12/07/2017 13:13

Why didn't he purchase a ticket at the station when he alighted the train?

Just remembered getting fined for trying to do exactly this - I had a pram with me and there was no lift, so I had to walk out of the station to go up the path to the ticket office to buy the ticket. I was stopped by a guy who refused to believe me - I needed a ticket anyway as I needed a return to get home later and it was only about a pound more for a return rather than a single anyway! He was really pushy and aggressive with me - I did appeal but got nowhere. I even went back to show him I'd paid for a ticket now but I still got a penalty notice.

However the penalty if you pay straight away is about £80 max, not the £700 if it goes to court for non payment. So do make sure he appeals once the initial conviction is dismissed, and make sure you pay whilst the appeal is being considered to avoid a much higher fine i my advice.

leghoul · 12/07/2017 13:16

I got fined when I beeped through a ticket at a ticket barrier, which opened and did not make any untoward sounds, got on the train and it had apparently not 'touched in' despite my beeping in and having funds on the ticket to do so. In the end I paid the fine. Which was ridiculous. No advice but sympathy from me.

Roomba · 12/07/2017 13:16

The whys and wherefores of how he got fined and whether that is reasonable aren't the main issue here, OP. As per my post above, the issue is that your DH has been convicted of a crime of dishonesty that could affect his career amongst other things (tricky if he works in finance or is a director for one thing). He's been unaware of this conviction, and he now needs to go to the court and state this in a Statutory Declaration so it can be removed from his record and the issue of whether he should have been fined or not can then be dealt with properly.

MiniCooperLover · 12/07/2017 13:20

Of course your station offers monthly tickets !! I've worked for railway companies before and all decisions on tickets come from a Head Office, they aren't Station Specific and they all run the same computer systems! I'm sorry OP but something about the story your DH is telling you is not adding up.

callmeadoctor · 12/07/2017 13:21

Why didn't you redirect your mail?

Floralnomad · 12/07/2017 13:22

Who gives him the discount off his ticket ? When he hadn't heard anything why didn't he chase it up , everybody knows train operators always prosecute .

user1497444078 · 12/07/2017 13:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Whichwayyisup · 12/07/2017 13:26

Um, I think nauticant was actually sympathethising with you!

Changebagsandgladrags · 12/07/2017 13:26

I had this with TFL once. At 8 months pregnant and about to finish work for mat leave. I cashed in my annual paper pass the day before and was just buying daily train tickets and then using my Oyster on the bus.

Got on a packed 407 at Victoria station, found a seat and plonked. Just as we pulled out of Victoria Station I remembered I forgot to scan the bollocking card. Heaved myself out of the seat to scan it, and an inspector popped up. Wouldn't let me scan my card then, or at the next stop. Took details and my Oyster card with £11 on it.

About 3 months later I got a letter from TFL saying they were going to take me to court. Said bring it on, I'll be bringing a baby to court, make sure I can breastfeed.

They backed down, kept my £11 though, cunts.

I think purposely avoiding paying and unintentionally not paying are very different.

Ceto · 12/07/2017 13:30

Our station doesn't offer monthly passes and in any case DH gets a significant discount off his tickets, so buying daily tickets isn't a significant cost.

But presumably he could get a season ticket from his destination station? And a discount off a lower overall price leaves you even better off.

TshoTsho · 12/07/2017 13:31

No disrespect, but the standard of advice here is shocking (not surprising, Railway issues are complex, and not well known).

OP, ignore this thread, join the railforums, and post on the dispute and prosecution board (or ask OH to do so).

www.railforums.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=152

The people there are very knowledgeable, and helpful.
In short, it is likely that the TOC would have tried to sort some out of court settlement (from you you wrote probably something like £80), and contacted you to get your side of the story. In the absence of response from you, their prosecution department has escalated the issue.
Please check on the railforum, but they will probably suggest a statutory declaration that you were NOT aware of the summons first, to reset the clock. And then to contact the TOC's prosecution department directly.
It's not fun being in the clutches of a TOC.

Floggingmolly · 12/07/2017 13:32

How does your DH receive "significant discount" on his tickets when he buys them daily from the train conductor??

nauticant · 12/07/2017 13:34

Irony is impossible on the Internet Whichwayyisup. But with my Devil may care approach to MN posting I do it anyway!

OnionKnight · 12/07/2017 13:35

How does your DH receive "significant discount" on his tickets when he buys them daily from the train conductor??

I was wondering that too, I get a discount but I have to 'pre-book' them.

Unless he physically takes them to work and presents them as 'proof' or something.

PuppyMonkey · 12/07/2017 13:35

Nauticant, looks like you should have included a note in your joke to say it was also a joke.... Grin