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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Charlie Gard Case 5

999 replies

LovelyBath77 · 12/07/2017 09:13

A new thread to follow on from the others about this case.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
MarthasHarbour · 12/07/2017 11:10

I have lurked on these threads as I find the whole thing so disturbing.

However I have come along to say that CA are now talking about 'calling in the GMC to threaten the Drs with losing their registration'

FFS. The GMC would throw it back in their faces anyway but that would be another allegation of an establishment cover up.

Poor poor baby. Big woolly hugs to Charlie. Hope he meets his peace soon xx

Lightlovelife · 12/07/2017 11:11

Well done re the petition ArgyMargy. Thank you.

Writerwannabe83 · 12/07/2017 11:15

I've just sent a message to GOSH through Facebook and they replied very quickly......

I just got a reply too and they seem genuinely grateful for the support. I hope people all over the country are doing it Flowers

ItsNachoCheese · 12/07/2017 11:18

lonelymummy Flowers

ShatnersWig · 12/07/2017 11:23

Latest from the Barmy:

"Ugggggh the judge is a prick..... There they are trying to look after the pennies but isn't costing more money to go to court the judge will be reaping it in the longer it goes on for...... Waste the money for the good of saving Charlie gard... Stop been frigging monsters and cash fucking greedy!!!"

Every post is filled with irony they just don't see

Rachel0Greep · 12/07/2017 11:23

I just got a reply too and they seem genuinely grateful for the support. I hope people all over the country are doing it

I have just messaged them also.

SumThucker · 12/07/2017 11:25

I'm getting obsessed with reading it Shatners, the mind blowing stupidity of so many of them is making me question my sanity.

Mamagin · 12/07/2017 11:25

Surely this is a direct threat? I've reported to Facebook .. though that seems to be useless.

Charlie Gard Case 5
ShatnersWig · 12/07/2017 11:26

I'm incredulous. I've replaced names with an initial. This is talking about Gollop:

S: I have faith that karma will get this bitch, one day.
H: Karma does exist and it will come round and hit her
S: Hopefully with a hammer...
H: Haha

Something legal should have been done about this page a long time ago.

SumThucker · 12/07/2017 11:29

Absolutely, to say the comments are moderated too, I'm surprised they've allowed so many to stand.

Oogle · 12/07/2017 11:31

Comment on CA:

I spent 20 years on and off at G O S H. And I can tell you they make mistakes all the time... the no of times that they have given wrong prognosis is unbelievable and all the children who have survived dispute this and had a good life. They must give this poor baba a chance ......... if 5he treatment does not work then at least they would of giving it a go. Xxx xxx God be with you little man. Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Someone has replied with: ^Can you not come forward as a whitnes in court ? Could connie and chris 's solicitor not use this Xxx

Can someone inform connie of XYZ s comment and get her legal team onit x

You worked there surely youare a credable whitnes its not down to gosh who is brought to the courts or what evidence connie and chris provide to back their argument , if you cane forward whos to say others wouldnt then your voice would be too loud to not be heard anything is worth a shot for charlie^

(Turns out she didn't work there, her child was there)

I'm actually aghast at the comments on that page. Some of the comments against the GOSH QC are disgusting and I've reported them.

goodbyestranger · 12/07/2017 11:32

The hospital where DD1 was in the NICU was a centre of excellence in the US but by definition that meant that some parents were thousands of miles away, either from their home or, in some cases where there was no family support, thousands of miles away from their sick child because they had other children at home to care for and sometimes jobs to do which they couldn't afford to lose. Fortunately for us, this was out first child so we could be with her and were also relatively close to our home (50 miles away, so nothing in US terms). It must have been excruciating for those poor parents who were torn by conflicting needs.

MirandaWest · 12/07/2017 11:32

I think the Mail bombing is ie sending postcards there rather than anything more serious and is intended to "make them listen" rather than harm anyone

goodbyestranger · 12/07/2017 11:33

I remember one little baby dying alone.

Pemba · 12/07/2017 11:33

Can you message them if you don't have facebook?

I have resisted having an account so far, and after viewing the barmy army's page I am glad I have. Lunacy. Why won't Facebook HQ take any action?

This is a tragedy on every level, the parents are obviously living an absolute nightmare, but even so my sympathy for them is running out because of the damage they and their daft supporters are doing. Not only to Charlie and GOSH, but to the NHS in general, and as a knock on effect, to any heath schemes for poorer people in America (Medicare? is it called). Because right-wing nutjobs, who are plentiful over there, are using Charlie's case as an example of why 'socialised medicine' is a bad thing.

I dread to think what the Gards have unleashed, as a result of their own agony.

Lotsofsighing · 12/07/2017 11:33

Apologies for the very long copy-and-paste but here's an article from today's Times by Janice Turner, who I almost always agree with wholeheartedly. And today's no exception. It's very frightening how a bunch of pro-life loons have hijacked. I've pasted it because otherwise it's behind a paywall.

ARTICLE: In February the group Abort67 set up a Facebook live-stream opposite the BPAS abortion clinic in Hastings. Any woman going inside that day, past the protesters waving placards showing magnified photos of bloody foetuses, risked being exposed on social media.

At another BPAS (British Pregnancy Advisory Service) clinic, a woman was called by her violent partner who opposed the abortion. He had given both their mobile numbers to the Good Counsel Network, which regularly protested outside. When the protesters saw her going in alone, they let him know and later texted her, demanding she cancel the abortion.

Until about 2010, such tactics were unknown in Britain. Public opinion is overwhelmingly settled on our long-standing abortion laws. Then the group 40 Days for Life began organising Lent vigils that it claimed were peaceful and “prayerful”. Yet they weren’t lobbying law-makers in parliament, but catcalling and leafleting women. Some patients reported being followed and their car registration numbers being taken. Protesters carried cameras on the pretext of recording violent counter-demos, making women fearful of being identified. They were so disruptive that a BPAS clinic in Blackfriars, central London, was almost evicted from a building it shares with a GP surgery after understandable concerns raised by doctors and patients.

These methods and objectives — to close legal clinics and scare women away from using them — have one significant source: the powerful, wealthy American anti-abortion lobby. Abort67 is a project of the US Center for Bio-Ethical Reform; the Good Counsel Network is affiliated to the US movement 40 Days for Life. British groups receive training and funds from their mighty American counterparts, which are now endorsed by passionate anti-choice supporters in the White House.

After Donald Trump tweeted his vow to secure US medical assistance for Charlie Gard, the brain-damaged 11-month-old with a rare mitochondrial disease at the centre of a controversial court case, the pro-life lobby seized the case. The Rev Patrick Mahoney, who was jailed for violating a court order not to picket Texan abortion clinics, and Catherine Glenn Foster, the president of Americans United for Life, flew to Britain to begin acting as spokespeople for Charlie’s parents, Connie Yates and Chris Gard.

Charlie Gard cannot breathe unaidedCharlie Gard cannot breathe unaided
PA
Mahoney, who was photographed praying at Charlie’s bedside in Great Ormond Street Hospital, claims his visit has Trump’s blessing and he updates the president on Charlie’s progress. Glenn Foster, meanwhile, is a lawyer who has litigated against many US abortion providers and seeks to overturn Roe v Wade, the US ruling on legal abortion.

So why has this tragic British baby become a magnet for the US anti-abortion lobby? First, for the Trump administration Charlie is a useful domestic teaching aid to oppose Obamacare: behold how “socialised medicine” is so cold and heartless it not only murders the unborn but lets disabled babies die. See, Sarah Palin was right about UK “death panels”.

If tomorrow Charlie’s parents secure High Court permission to take him to America for experimental treatment that has, at most, a 10 per cent chance of improving his health, it will be a victory for free-market medicine, which never gives up. Providing, of course, you have the cash. Charlie’s parents have raised £1.3 million for his general care in America, which, unlike in the UK, would not be state-funded. Low-income US parents of such a child, even with health insurance, would reach a financial cap or be bankrupted by co-payments. American Charlie Gards die every day, yet Mahoney isn’t praying for them.

Chris Gard and Connie YatesChris Gard and Connie Yates
ANDY RAIN/EPA
Second, the Gard case helps to dispel a key criticism of anti-abortion campaigners, that they care only for the unborn, never the born. Religious conservatives are the harshest critics of state assistance for single mothers even though, in their moral terms, they have done the “right” thing and kept their babies. Yet with Charlie Gard’s case they can surf a wave of universal sympathy and show themselves for once genuinely “pro-life”: fearless, energetic advocates of a real, suffering child.

But why this baby? As the Gard case snowballs into a movement, what it most evokes is the anti-vaccination campaign, driven by a belief among some parents that their children’s autism was caused by doctors inoculating them with MMR. Such claims, by the British doctor Andrew Wakefield, have been universally discredited, yet even now some parents refuse to immunise their babies, while angry online groups brew conspiracy theories. The left blames big pharma; the right blames big state.

The “anti-vax” movement, with its distrust of experts, science and official knowledge, is argued to be the seed-corn of our febrile politics from Brexit to Trump. Politicians, judges, doctors, economists . . . what do they care for ordinary people like us? All this legal opinion and medical expertise is just there to confuse and control us. We must look out for our own. Who knows better what a child needs: so-called experts or his loving parents?

On Channel 4 News, Foster was asked how she knew that the vast tranche of medical evidence compiled by Great Ormond Street Hospital was wrong. She disputes the hospital’s view that Charlie’s condition cannot be improved, that he is suffering pain (he is on low doses of morphine) and that prolonging his life is cruel. And she replied that, although “I am not a doctor”, she had studied his ECGs and MRI scans and knew better than the most famous children’s hospital in the world. Charlie, Foster said, would “bring hope to the world”.

We live in an age where feelings matter more than facts, faith more than truth. If Connie Yates believes her son is “getting stronger”, that this US treatment could make Charlie — who cannot swallow, open his eyes or breathe unaided — “a normal boy”, who are experts to contradict her? It is entirely understandable when poor Chris Gard, grieving for his son and empowered by tweets from the Pope, yells, “When are you going to start telling the truth?” at a High Court judge. But does the magnitude of the couple’s suffering make them right?

Do parents indeed always know what is best for their children? The whole family court system is predicated on a belief that sometimes they do not. Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot deny their children life-saving blood transfusions; it is illegal for parents to subject their daughters to FGM. Both are essentially religious practices that society judges to be morally wrong. Should we allow parents to put a dying child through a pointless ordeal of overseas treatment just because they too have “hope” and “faith”?

Pro-life groups have picketed abortion clinicsPro-life groups have picketed abortion clinics
DREW ANGERER/GETTY IMAGES
Ultimately the US religious right, as embodied by the grandstanding Mahoney, wants as much as any sharia court for religious belief to override secular law. The pastor even claimed that his prayers were answered when Great Ormond Street Hospital announced another court hearing. Galvanising kind-hearted people around #prayforcharlie hashtags is worth more in movement-building publicity for Mahoney’s anti-abortion lobby than any clinic protest. They wish the narrative of this profoundly sad case to be a battle of the individual against the state, the law and even knowledge itself.

It is tempting to think: why not let this poor couple take their baby to America; what harm can it do? And as a parent I feel it deeply: faced with a dying child, perhaps I too would lose all reason. But either we hold fast to first principles of carefully documented evidence, medical expertise and logic, or we capitulate to amorphous belief. We should applaud Mr Justice Francis for refusing to be swayed by tweets from the world’s most powerful men or by parental emotion, however heartfelt. The US right, which has elbowed its way to poor Charlie Gard’s bedside, has a troubling political agenda. It is the Pope’s job to believe in miracles, not the courts’.

bootsmealdeal · 12/07/2017 11:33

So they're actively trying to obstruct care for others by shutting gosh's email servers by "mail bombing"?! god they are such fucking dicks.

TheWeeWitch · 12/07/2017 11:34

Mrs Gove wades in on the Charlie story. She manages to praise the treatment her own child received on the NHS whilst simultaneously pushing her husbands "hammer the experts" line.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4687374/amp/SARAH-VINE-changed-mind-Charlie-Gard.html

bootsmealdeal · 12/07/2017 11:34

They seem to have forgotten he's not the only patient in that hospital. Or they don't care.

SumThucker · 12/07/2017 11:34

Stop looking, Oogle, it'll take a bit of your soul.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/07/2017 11:35

Can I just clarify something from the last thread, please?

At 00.08 this morning on thread 4, MyPuppyIsADick copied a post which had been made on the USA Charlies Army page, supposedly by one the the "7 experts". I don't know if anyone else noticed it, but it didn't look to me like something written by a "professional"

So please, does anyone know just who these people are supposed to be? I'm thoroughly confused now and am wondering if it was merely someone pretending to be one of these "doctors" Hmm

MyPatronusIsAUnicorn · 12/07/2017 11:35

"The Telegraph is saying that Charlie's parents feel 'stitched up' at only having until today to provide the new evidence."

Oh fgs. If this is true then I can't not comment on the parents now. I've held back because they are desperste, grieving parents who have lost all touch with reality. But this is a joke! They supposedly had new evidence and presented the total sum of fuck all on Monday. Where is this new evidence they have if they are whining they aren't being given enough time to provide it. Basically they have nothing and this has been nothing more than another (successful) attempt to delay it yet again. Just go and spend the last remaining however long with your terminally ill child ffs instead of interviews, posing with a bloody pastor and whipping up CA into a frenzy. Angry I'm actually feeling quite angry now. Whilst a lot of it comes from CA, the parents and family are not exactly refuting what they say.

I really feel for the staff that are doing their best for Charlie, knowing that his parents seem to have such utter comtempt for them. If they didn't they would tell the 'army' not to call them murderers etc.

MissHavishamsleftdaffodil · 12/07/2017 11:36

Lonelymummy thinking of you and your little girl today Flowers

I was sad to see the 'stitched up and rushed' comment, particularly considering that the whole situation went back to court at the parents' insistence. It does seem to confirm that there is no new evidence to present, certainly nothing they have on paper ready to go, and the two weeks the parents' lawyers were requesting was to give them time to find some hence their now feeling rushed, although I suspect they were hoping the delay would allow more time for something to come up through public and international pressure. Sad Along with requesting a different judge and a full hearing of the case again. Its also very sad and rather telling that while the judge is not prepared to leave Charlie (and GOSH) living in the current status quo for another two weeks either without new active treatment or switch to palliative care, the parents and their lawyers were, and are now sharing with the media how unhappy they are about Charlie's interests once again being put ahead of theirs.

While I hope something comes up tomorrow that does mean this child gets a miracle, its looking increasingly unlikely, in which case it is a great shame that GOSH didn't do the switch to palliative care a couple of weeks ago as planned. This has just increased suffering for Charlie and for the parents, and makes what is to come even harder for them.

FastAbsorbingCake · 12/07/2017 11:36

@Lonelymummyof1 Flowers

tinhead · 12/07/2017 11:37

I've reported each and every comment about Gollop and/or threat of violence towards GOSH. Who knows what good it will do but it felt like a good use of my morning off.

Much love to you and dd lonelymummy