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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Charlie Gard Case 5

999 replies

LovelyBath77 · 12/07/2017 09:13

A new thread to follow on from the others about this case.

OP posts:
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13
aurynne · 13/07/2017 03:19

For the sake of me I cannot understand the religious people's stance on this. Surely God HAS decided to let Charlie Gard go long ago already, as he is only alive by virtue of human-made machines. Without them, he would die in minutes. That would be God's will surely?

3littlebadgers · 13/07/2017 04:23

I'm in too Darth fantastic idea.

AcrossthePond55 · 13/07/2017 04:51

aurynne I'm a Christian and I pretty much feel as you described. I believe that in cases where huge medical intervention is needed to keep someone alive there comes a time when you just have to have faith and turn it over to God. If he's going to work a miracle He can do it without all those machines.

I also hope that if I were in Charlie's parents position that my faith and trust in God would be great enough to know that I will see my child again someday and that if God has decreed that it's his/her time then He knows best and it's not my place to second-guess Him.

I don't know anything about Charlie's parent's religious faith or lack thereof. But I cannot believe any rational clergyperson would encourage them to keep Charlie alive under these circumstances. But I've said before that I think Charlie's parent's minds are 'broken' at this point. They cannot think rationally and they are being encouraged in their 'irrationality' by a baying mob, a mob who has nothing at stake in this insanity.

The religious right doesn't think along those lines. All they think about is their agenda. Somehow they have to 'tie' the fight for Charlie into their 'right to life' crusade. The suffering of one little boy doesn't matter in the large scheme of things. To them, Charlie is a 'martyr' for the 'cause'. It's sickening.

0nline · 13/07/2017 05:44

For the sake of me I cannot understand the religious people's stance on this. Surely God HAS decided to let Charlie Gard go long ago already, as he is only alive by virtue of human-made machines. Without them, he would die in minutes. That would be God's will surely?

To some extent, the Vatican would appear to agree with you.

This is a statement made by Paglia

...

The matter of the English baby Charlie Gard and his parents has meant both pain and hope for all of us. We feel close to him, to his mother, his father, and all those who have cared for him and struggled together with him until now. For them, and for those who are called to decide their future, we raise to the Lord of Life our prayers, knowing that “in the Lord our labor will not be in vain.” (1 Cor. 15:58)

The Catholic Bishops' Conference of England and Wales issued a statement today that recognizes above all the complexity of the situation, the heartrending pain of the parents, and the efforts of so many to determine what is best for Charlie. The Bishops’ statement also reaffirms that “we should never act with the deliberate intention to end a human life, including the removal of nutrition and hydration, so that death might be achieved” but that “we do, sometimes, however, have to recognize the limitations of what can be done, while always acting humanely in the service of the sick person until the time of natural death occurs.”

The proper question to be raised in this and in any other unfortunately similar case is this: what are the best interests of the patient? We must do what advances the health of the patient, but we must also accept the limits of medicine and, as stated in paragraph 65 of the Encyclical Evangelium Vitae, avoid aggressive medical procedures that are disproportionate to any expected results or excessively burdensome to the patient or the family. Likewise, the wishes of parents must heard and respected, but they too must be helped to understand the unique difficulty of their situation and not be left to face their painful decisions alone. If the relationship between doctor and patient (or parents as in Charlie’s case) is interfered with, everything becomes more difficult and legal action becomes a last resort, with the accompanying risk of ideological or political manipulation, which is always to be avoided, or of media sensationalism, which can be sadly superficial.

.....

We have Charlie Gards here too in Italy . Life support does get turned off.

I was pregnant at the same time as my barista, we were due three days apart and spent months comparing notes and joint bellyaching about the various drawbacks of being hugely pregnant in a Milanese summer.

I ended up with an oversized baby boy. She and her husband ended up with a tiny white coffin. Their little girl's paediatricians advised turning off life support, because the catastrophic brain damage suffered during the birth offered their tiny daughter little to no quality of life.

I live in a sea of of Catholics, and aside from the usual handful of hardcore believers, people generally support rather than critise parents who are faced with decisions along these lines.

MissHavishamsleftdaffodil · 13/07/2017 06:14

Darth great idea.

lonely glad your little girl has her lines in Flowers

Nquartz · 13/07/2017 06:17

Rhodiolia agree wholeheartedly, I'm in.

Nquartz · 13/07/2017 06:18

Online such a sad story, but it is reassuring to hear that common sense usually prevails

ChattyLion · 13/07/2017 06:24

Flowers to those posting while you have your own serious issues to be dealing with. Your thoughtfulness and care for the situation of others is so generous. Flowers

teawamutu · 13/07/2017 06:30

Wonderful idea for a campaign - I'm in.

toriap2 · 13/07/2017 06:30

I am also in for the campaign. When I was young my mum had me bin the cardiac ward of RMCH and my younger brother in the Liverpool childrens hospital with almost the same problem. Luckily she had support from her family but she said many parents didnt. I will do anything I can to help xxxx

teawamutu · 13/07/2017 06:37

Lonelymummyof1 don't want to embarrass you but I've been trying to PM you and can't - I'd also love to help fuel you. Hospital's a draining place. Drop me a line and let me know how to do it? Please?

DubiousCredentials · 13/07/2017 06:37

CA now predicting worldwide riots if it doesn't go their way today ShockHmm

teawamutu · 13/07/2017 06:46

If it's like the protests, four people will turn up and kick a bin or something while every one else explains on FB they wud be there if they cud, hun...

Mulberry72 · 13/07/2017 06:50

I'd like to help with the campaign if I can?

I've not contributed much to the CG threads much, but have followed each one from the very beginning.

Trampire · 13/07/2017 06:58

Just caught up with thread from last night.

I'm up for that Darth. Count me in!

GrapesAreMyJam · 13/07/2017 06:59

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

BlondieJ · 13/07/2017 07:00

My feelings on this case are constantly changing.
I feel desperately sad for Charlie and for his parents.
I think that CA have been incredibly fired up and worked into a frenzy.
I am surprised at how (what I've seen) the main stream media is just completely one sided. I haven't heard or read anything that agrees with GOSH or even really give an explanation of why GOSH are wanting to let Charlie go.
With that in mind you can see why a lot of CA are livid and shouting about a big conspiracy, if I had just based my opinion on main stream reporting then I would feel that way too.
What I am struggling with is why it all seems so heavily one sided? Are the media afraid of looking bad... no one wants to advocate the life support of a baby being turned off for fear of looking evil?
Is it because the greater powers behind the daily fail et al want a privatised NHS and this fits with their agenda? Using this family and poor little Charlie as pawns in a game to try and show that privatised health care is a better way?
I have found myself getting so angry with how this is reported, so many outright lies and misconceptions. With so many people angry at GOSH and calling them murderers.

I am appalled by the way some members of our society have to hate the establishment at any cost. They want to fight for the sake of fighting. Whether it's the doctors, police, teachers. But yet they ALL use these services as and when they need them, but then complain and want people sacked for doing next to nothing wrong!
These people think they know more about a very rare and complex condition then the doctors at GOSH who have spent years and years studying and then years working in the medical profession... then they think that they are all lawyers and know more than a highly qualified and experienced judge... it beggars belief it really does!

Cococrumble · 13/07/2017 07:01

Could I help with a campaign in any way? We really struggled when my daughter was in NICU, is frightening how quickly the little things add up.

Redglitter · 13/07/2017 07:02

CA now predicting worldwide riots if it doesn't go their way today

And people (I think 500,000 was the figure quoted) storming the hospital grabbing him and leaving the hospital with him.

No-one pointed out that that's in effect removing his life support and he'll die if they did

5achel · 13/07/2017 07:05

Au contraire blondiej
You need to read something other than the DM
CA are a small minority of fired up keyboard warriors, that's all

CaveMum · 13/07/2017 07:06

It would be nice if somehow we could set up a charitable fund that parents of children in NICU could access. How you'd go about setting up something nationwide and ensuring that it got to the right people (and wasn't subject to bogus claims) I don't know, but I'd happily get involved.

Zoflorabore · 13/07/2017 07:11

I'm in too :)

surely there must be a way of implementing it? Even on a small scale.

So wrong that parents are also suffering as well as their innocent children.
Let's do all we can!

0nline · 13/07/2017 07:12

CA now predicting worldwide riots if it doesn't go their way today

I think that might be a feature of outrage groups that form on SM. Saw similar during the whole "gobble gobble" Thanksgiving Microphone Outrage. The whole world was going to take to the streets (allegedly) if the teacher didn't get fired.

SM has really amplified the ability to surrround oneself with an echo chamber, and the opportunity for people to 24/7 wind each other up into ever more outlandish and over-egged statements. For some I think it is possible that real world feedback features almost not at all in the forming of their stance, opinion and predictions. To the point that to them it becomes almost unthinkable that their views are not in line with the vast majority of the general public.

Some of them are playing the "I predict a riot" card to garner "I'm crosser than your average supporter, cos I am supporter deluxe, please notice me!!" points. But some will genuinely believe it to be true. Because they have sub consciously avoided challenge to their opinion they expect their own strength of feeling to be shared by the wider population.

Mamagin · 13/07/2017 07:22

I would happily support anything to help people with children in ICU. Although really it should be the benefits system that needs an overhaul so that it's more flexible and responsive, it's not just parents who find it hard, but anyone who has a relative or partner there.

Zoflorabore · 13/07/2017 07:34

My friend has twins and one of them has been ill since birth 3yrs ago, she is currently undergoing investigations yet again at Alder Hey children's hospital.
She is lucky that we live around ten minutes away and can be with her dd everyday.
She also has a big family who help out with childcare, meals, dropping her off there etc as she doesn't drive.

She has told me of other families there that are struggling. It's so expensive having a child in hospital, her dd will be in for a total of 3 weeks. Others are not so fortunate.

The CG case has highlighted that there are so many in need of help, I bet they wouldn't share that money out with others in picu.
If the judge rules with the hospital today then what happens to the money?
Genuine question btw I'm not being goady.

I really hope it's used to help other families.

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