Charlie Gard Case 4

[LovelyBath77]

A new thread to follow on from the others about this case

I fear there will be riots and protests and staff at GOSH may need police protection nah it's all hot air. I'm not saying staff shouldn't feel threatened but really a few mums with toddlers in pushchairs is all it comes down to. The rest are keyboard warriors.

I have a friend in CA who says she 'loves' Charlie and has been to see him & put up banners on the railings opposite the hospital entrance etc
She truly truly believes GOSH staff are the enemy i just can't understand it & keeping away because I don't want to get into an argument.
I saw a this morning segment & pretty disgusted with Phil & hollys standpoint 🙄 How about giving support to GOSH???

A couple have people have mentioned the 7 doctors. I would love to know who they are and what their credentials are. I know quite a few people who are entitled to call themselves Dr who have as little medical knowledge as me, and if they were experts in Charlie's illness surely they would have been in touch with GOSH.

f you click on the CG trend on Facebook, almost all of the posts are using this as an example as why you should "resist socialised healthcare" because it's "governments making decisions that should be made by you and your doctors"- "once you have socialised healthcare you lose all your rights" etc

Yes that's what I find so worrying about this case. It's been clear to me - from listening to actual experts, whatever that fuckwit Gove says about them- that the little boy at the centre of this is unlikely to survive. In their increasingly irrational (and I'm sorry, but inexcusable) drive for a miracle, his parents are enabling the potential for huge damage to the NHS.

Let's face it, had they been US citizens, on benefits, so with only basic Medicaid, the child would not have been treated to live for as long as he has.

There's Charlie merchandise?

I fear there will be riots and protests and staff at GOSH may need police protection

Nah! Look at any of the pics of their physical protests so far, 3 or 4 nutters with banners. 99% of CA are armchair warriors.

I don't understand the whole 7 doctor thing. Surely if evidence was there from them it'd been submitted etc.

They, in the form of their counsel, were repeatedly asked about it at the hearing yesterday. What was the evidence, and what was 'new' about it that the judge hadn't heard before. When it wasn't forthcoming, the judge set the deadline of 2pm Weds for written evidence to be produced.

It began to look like delaying tactics, and the judge was having none of it.

I do hope that the family have support around them, good quality support. I really feel if this goes the way it looks like, that they'll just fall apart. You can only keep going for so long before you crack, or collapse.

It would give his parents closure and if it didn't work they would have the peace of knowing that everything possible had been done

No it won't, they'ld blame his death on "unnecessary delays"
They'll seek out vulnerable parents with terminal babies and tell them not to trust doctors/GOSH and will help CA start up new campaigns about other babies. They will tell parents whose babies have different conditions and prognosis that Charlie is an example of why they should "fight" their doctors etc.

It wouldn't be their fault, the lonelier members of CA who now think that C&C are their personal friends would be egging them on.

US republicans will us their photographs because connie is pleasingly blonde/white for their pro live agenda for years to come

At this point I don't think "closure" or peace is achievable for C&C

Let's face it, had they been US citizens, on benefits, so with only basic Medicaid, the child would not have been treated to live for as long as he has

Charlie's Army in their rush to vilify 'socialised healthcare', obviously are unaware of the fact that many women in the USA are cornered into terminating their pregnancies.
When certain fetal abnormalities being discovered during scans, they are given the options and feel pressure to terminate, because their health insurance just isn't comprehensive enough to fund adequate future treatment of the diagnosed condition.

I also hope to god that every single member of CA 60,000 exclusively use private healthcare, because it would be blatant hypocrisy to criticise our 'socialised healthcare', and then benefit from it yourself when you get the sniffles.

They will probably be invited on expenses paid speaking tours to the US. Without ever figuring out the irony that they are exactly the sort of people who fall through the cracks of private healthcare systems!

The only small blessing here is that they don't have any other children to get dragged along with this circus!

ive had odema yes me too it's bloody awful for a week let alone all this time

Re: Charlie's guardian from the Barmy:

"But charlie hasn't said that he wishes to die, because he can't talk? How can a complete stranger who probably has never met charlie, decide that he would want to die??"

The flip side of this, of course, is that as he can't talk, Charlie hasn't said he'd want to live like this either. And as he can't talk, his parents can't say that he isn't in pain. But they're his parents, so clearly, they know precisely what he would say.

Ah, right, I was wondering the awfulness of Trump sticking his nose in. Are you all familiar with the controversial operation christmas child shoe box appeal, the company that runs it is headed by Franklin Graham . His CG FB post takes the opportunity to blame social care and attack the NHS. It has over 8000 posts and comes in 5th as most popular post about CG. I'm so slow sometimes, it's about Obamacare & Christianit support for Trump .

Ok the 7 Doctors.....

@MontyPythonsFlyingFuck posted on this earlier and I've copied it below my comments.

The parents asset that these Doctors "support" them. Frankly that's an assertion too far.

These Doctors are not quacks by any means. They are reputable in their various fields.

What they have said, it that contrary to evidence in the initial hearings, they believe there is evidence that there is a chance that the therapy could pass the blood brain barrier.

They have not stated it could repair any pre-existing brain damage or given any assessment on if application of treatment would be the correct course of action for Charlie. They have not assessed him, seen his medical records or are in any case (though experts in their respective fields) suitably qualified to make such a judgment if they had.

It's a stretch therefore to say they "support" the parents case in its entirety. However this is a typical example of why the situation has become so inflammatory, because information is being provided in way that is unbalanced and due to patient confidentiality, GOSH cannot clarify or refute the claims being made to the press.

---

This is a statement from one of the signatories to the "new evidence" letter. Seems to me that he is very much distancing himself from any crusading activity:

Ramon Marti is a chemist and the head of the Neuromuscular and Mitochondrial Pathology group at the Vall d'Hebron Research Institute, a public sector institution that promotes and develops innovative biomedical research at Barcelona's Vall d'Hebron Hospital.
Yolanda Camara is a biologist working in the area of Neuromuscular and Mitochrondial Pathology.

Mr Marti confirmed today: 'We are co-signatories on a scientific statement sent to the Great Ormond Street Hospital.

'As experts we're asked for an opinion and we give it but there's nothing else I really want to say.

'I, and I'm speaking now on a personal level, have sent this statement saying that as an expert I think this treatment could work but I'm not getting involved in the final decision because that depends on other factors I do not know about.

'I haven't seen Charlie and I'm a chemist, not a doctor. The letter says what it says and I can confirm that I signed the letter and I signed it because I felt I had to send it.

'Before I also sent a letter to Charlie's mother, signed solely by me, with basically the same message for her in case she wanted to use it through her lawyers for the trial.

'I don't remember exactly when it was sent but it was earlier this year when the trial was happening.

'The message in it was similar in that it said that in this type of illness, this type of treatment could have some kind of effect but of course I didn't offer an opinion about what should happen to Charlie above and beyond what those who know the case might conclude.

'Charlie's mum has that letter if she wants to share it with the press.

'Those have been my only two interventions in this case. I can't say that I recommend one thing or the other.

'What I can tell you is that I've sent information to the hospital. I don't know how that information has become public.'

I had odema when I was pregnant with DS and for a little while afterwards. It was at least uncomfortable and I remember kneeling for instance was impossible.

"Is it time to get the law involved, surely it can't be allowed in English law to harass a law abiding couple who just want to give their baby a chance to live. "

From the Barmy page which is full of people who have harassed GOSH, is now harassing the guardian's QC for her support for assisted suicide, is harassing anyone on almost any public forum for a view that differs from their's....

Along with most of them being illiterate and ill-informed we can add that most of them have no sense of irony or know what the word "hypocrites" means.

Re the letter from that doctor / scientist.

They are simply stating we have a medicine and in theory it could stop further deterioration.

But that is in theory, on paper. But there is no proof. No 10%. And he hasn't applied that theory to this actual case as he has no knowledge of the medical assessments and records.

So that is a huge gap from 'doctors have said that he could improve by 10%'

Ok, what is all this BS about making charlie a US citizen to "save him"?? How does that legally hold up? I'm a Canadian and us citizen and pretty sure subject to us court orders when I'm on their soil as a citizen so wouldn't it be the same for charlie? I mean legally what is that going to accomplish. He's under U.K. Care in their country as a citizen. I'm certainly not a lawyer so I'm jw
Again, I can barely contain my rage over these American fundie republicans and their hypocrisy. This baby serves as a good political pawn plus his parents have millions so I guess who cares about the babies dying at disgusting rates in their own damn country.
His face being used on keychains like a product and the political right using his face to further their agenda ..he's a person dammit, he has been given no respect and dignity and it makes me wanna f*ing cry.

I saw a comment from a lady who said she worked at GOSH, from all accounts the parents spend a lot of time swearing at staff and been obstructive as possible. I would hate to think that it's true but from what I have seen of their behaviour so far I wouldn't be surprised.

@Lightlovelife
I have sent the following PM to GOSH

I fully support you and the stance you are taking in the Charlie Gard case and cannot imagine how difficult it is for all the caring HCPs.
I would like to let you know that I have recently received an email from Caroline Craddock
President & CEO

English Campaigns Director
Americans United for Life

Citizen Go
which I am sure you are aware is an American anti abortion and pro life group.
They thanked me for signing their petition to save Charlie Gard.
I did not sign their petition or any other about CG and have not had, and never would have, any contact with this group.
Nor have I made my views known on any public online group or sent them by email or messenger so I have no idea how they obtained my name or email address.
I believe others have received the same email and wanted to make you aware that this group are fraudulently obtaining 'support'.
Thank you for all the amazing work you are doing for sick children

and an edited version omitting the first and last sentences to the Guardian and Independent.
Signed the newspaper ones Dr Smiling which I am but in a totally unrelated subject to medicine. Don't usually use it but thought it may add a bit of weight.
I am v.angry about this. It seems seems to show the immoral way this organisation operates. If they are so sure they are right then why to they have to stoop to this level ?
Doubt if it will do any good but made me feel slightly better.
Any other ideas anyone? Happy to add my name to anyone else's report.
Anything but contacting the D Fail!

I saw a comment from a lady who said she worked at GOSH, from all accounts the parents spend a lot of time swearing at staff and been obstructive as possible. I would hate to think that it's true but from what I have seen of their behaviour so far I wouldn't be surprised

I think that's very unlikely! GOSH will have all staff on strict no comment instructions!

If the 'new' evidence doesn't indicate that there could be an improvement in the brain damage Charlie has already sustained, the judge has said he won't be changing the original decision. That was what was reported from yesterday's hearing. Nothing else appears to be relevant.

Dustbunny1900 another dual citizen here and I can confirm what you say

If I am in one of my countries of citizenship I cannot use my other embasssy against that country. That's a condition of dual citizenship.

But citizenship wasn't the offer/proposal, permanant residency is. CAs can't even get their own facts right

Surely the question of pain is one that is difficult to answer? How can so many posters be so sure he is in pain? I just feel so sorry for his parents, and now all this vitriol against them too, very sad. There is this awful moral superiority by some referring to those with differing views as "Knuckledraggers" and saying that if you are not very literate you are not entitled to any views. None of us know the real answer.

Agree Tinsel.

Given the sensitivity of the case I think it will have been made clear that no reports of what's going on inside the hospital should be put in the public domain.