Charlie Gard Case 3

[LovelyBath77]

A new thread to carry on from the previous ones about the case

What sort of precedent does this case set for other desperate parents of seriously ill children? Will they now doubt what doctors and experts are telling them and question the treatment that they are getting? Will more people want explore untested experimental treatments? This case is not just about baby Charlie but how we treat all seriously ill children and adults in similar situations.

I just glanced at the CA Facebook page. Words fail me.

I've said this on an earlier thread but would like to say it again.

There is a damn good reason why it is against the Code of Ethical Practice for a Surgeon to operate on a member of his/her family.
Why Police officers can not be fully trusted to investigate family members' alleged crimes.
And why a Doctor treats and prescribes for virtual strangers, not their close friends and family.

Conflict of interest.

When you have an emotional attachment to the case in hand, be that surgery, criminal investigation or medical advice, you lose your impartiality.

If you don't have impartiality, you simply can not look objectively, because you have a personal, vested interest in the outcome.

Charlie's Parents should be nowhere near the final decisions now. He's suffering enough already.

However, can anyone honestly say that they wouldn't do the same in Charlie's parents position? They are DESPERATE

I'm a paediatric nurse and have been for over 10 years. I have looked after many terminally ill children and have also worked in a Specialised Children's Hospital and worked alongside families who have been told their child is dying and that the plan is to withdraw treatment, and in all that time I have never had a family behave the way Charlie's have. Heartbreak and grief manifests itself in a variety of ways, I understand that, but what's happening here is almost frightening. I can't bring myself to look at the CA FB page because just seeing the screenshots on here is enough, what people are saying is abhorrent and helps nobody.

I think the parents have been exploited and they have got themselves caught up in all this madness....it's like they've lost all grip of reality and although it's very, very upsetting it doesn't justify what they are allowing to happen.

I saw the photo earlier of Charlie 'holding his passport' and it made me feel sick to think the parents are staging photographs of a very sick baby to try and make a point. Shame on the photographer and shame on whoever published it. It's all just so wrong.

There's a very poorly little boy in the middle of this and he's being lost and forgotten about amongst the Crusaders.

Someone on the CA page is suggesting they contact Jeremy Kyle to get a 'hair folacle' [sic] test done...the reason, from what I can make out, being to see if Charlie is deliberately being given morphine in order to then take it away so he'll go into withdrawal and GODH can then justify saying he's in pain.

I don't even know what to think about some of these ghouls. This kind of crap needs to be shut down. It's bordering on libel. Also - Jeremy fucking Kyle?! Yeah, he'll make it all better. Ffs.

*GOSH

The scale of delusion on the CA page is horrifying. People commenting that Charlie is clearly just a "big lad", that he's obviously thriving, etc.

"If they were prepared to transport him to another hospital in UK then why not america, surly same equipment on journey is all that's needed"

Has any hospital even said they would now treat him in America?

IMO SS need to be involved now, and Charlie needs to be removed from these parents in order that the best can be done by him

But SS have to work within our legal framework too, and any case they brought would surely take longer than what's happening now?

I might be called a Neanderthal by some, but I am so so glad I was never on Facebook or Twitter.

I don't think I missed out on much really. Thankfully.

I'd be furious if I was Mr Armstrong, the parents' counsel. Made to appear an unprepared idiot in court by his own clients. Not much you can say to them, but I'd be going back to the office and kicking some furniture.

Some of CA are saying that they asked for a hearing on 25th July because they need that time to get the new evidence together. If this research already exists, why on earth would it take over two weeks to get it together? Of course, if no new evidence appears on Thursday, it'll be the judge's fault for rushing things.

@Writerwannabe83

Great post, thank you.

I hope that Mr Justice Francis plays it utterly old school and rules out all Social Media evidence / input / comment

A victory based on Great Ormond St. Hospital's request that a dismissal be granted

How does the reverend pastor make that out when it is GOSH who actually arranged for the case to come back to court? They could have done nothing and/or left it to the parents.

But SS have to work within our legal framework too, and any case they brought would surely take longer than what's happening now?

C&F is not my area of social work but I know it is for a number of mumsnetters- is a s44 Emergency Protection Order at all relevant here, or given the decisions already made by the courts would it be pointless?

Twitter is OK sodablackcurrant if you restrict yourself to comments by individuals making balanced and knowledgeable tweets. Once you go outside that though it is distressing to look at the oceans of anger-fueled violent ignorance.

However, can anyone honestly say that they wouldn't do the same in Charlie's parents position? They are DESPERATE

There have been a number of parents on these threads who have been in their position and who have, very movingly, explained why they didn't and wouldn't do the same.

They have claimed already to have the "new evidence", in which case it should not be a problem to provide it. I think the judge is sceptical as to whether this exists.., hence his insistence on this being provided in writing by Wednesday.

I'm sick of writing this. People are moved by this situation whether they are in the "Charlies army camp" or staring on in disbelief and horror on these threads.
I have seen some incredibly compassionate posts here and have tried very hard to look at all sides and be objective. But after today I have finally reached my tolerance level with the parents. Regardless of how hard this situation is for them, I'm sure it's much harder for Charlie.

nauticant,

So my OH keeps telling me too!

But the amount of buzzes on his phone when a twitter tells him something would drive me nuts!

I actually have my phone on silent most of the time. I can take a voice message or a Whatsapp or a text if it's important.

I am obviously a Luddite!

The 'new evidence' is clearly old re-hashed claims and made up stats.
It seems GOSH are making a stand and calling the parents' bluff. They've reasonably argued that they would be open to new treatment options- which they know don't exist.
The judge seem to have realised this as well and has asked the parents to submit any written evidence by Wednesday so that they can finally review and close the case safe in the knowledge that they are dealing with a very sick little boy who can't afford to be dragged on in a limbo of pain.

If the parents have the doctors' letters and the research as they claim they do then 48 hours is plenty of time to give it.

The problem here is that the parents are in a position which none of us would ever want to even imagine being in - they're in a place where they are going to lose their child, and that is something which none of us wants to contemplate. But it's also a position which, in the eyes of many, puts them above scrutiny, and as such they can put themselves at the centre of the most despicable behaviours and campaigns etc, and there will be people, even people who don't agree with their stance, who will take the view that "their child is dying, can you blame them/no-one knows what they're going through/they're in denial/they're only doing what they feel is best." Etc.

Thing is, we don't know that. We don't know that this is all about desparation any more. And the fact that a hospital has had to go to court in order to be allowed to do what is in the best interests of the welfare of this dying child is clear proof that actually, they do not have their child's best interests at heart.

But losing their child should not put them above question when they start tweeting the likes of Donald trump and pushing for their child to be kept alive and in pain just so they can get a bit more airtime out of this.

puzzledandpissedoff I do imagine that it would take time to go to court etc, although I would imagine that it must be possible to get an emergency order which would allow Charlie's life support to be turned off without the parents as they have consistently shown that they do not have Charlie's best interests at heart. Charlie already has a legal guardian due to him being a ward of court, surely that could be extended?

I don't get who CA think should look after Charlie if he were to be flown to America. As has been pointed out, they would have to set up a miniature intensive care unit in the ambulance and on the plain, with staffing, equipment and medication available to deal with every eventuality. Where do they propose that all of that should come from? Even if the £2 million pays for all the equipment etc, how about the staff? I very much doubt that there are doctors and nursing staff with the required level of expertise available on a private basis at the drop of a hat, and I would hope they don't expect GOSH to take expert staff away from the other children who desperately need them.

Agh, plane not plain.

If your instincts are telling you to stay away from twitter sodablackcurrant then definitely stay away. That's what my instincts say to me about facebook so I have always avoided it.