Charlie Gard Case 3

[LovelyBath77]

A new thread to carry on from the previous ones about the case

sodablackcurrant it's all being done pro bono for the Gard family, GOSH will be paying their own legal team.

Shatners I agree with that comment. I am beyond shocked at the sickening things which have been said about the NHS. I just can't even begin to understand the logic. CA have incited some abhorrent views. There is no excuse.

A few people on CA are beginning to question why there was no evidence and whether morphine is a bad thing. Doubt they'll listen to them though.

Does anyone know if this case is on the Free Legal Aid scheme

Apparently not - the judge said earlier that he's displeased counsel are working pro bono because legal aid hasn't been made available

Which raises the question of why the parents can't pay the legal fess from the fundraising ...

CA are saying the morphine thing is "convenient" - but it's interesting that this comes as news to them given that the parents must have known. I saw a tweet saying that if they're not sure if he is pain they shouldn't be medicating him. So it would be better to leave a very sick baby in pain then? You can be absolutely sure GOSH would not have prescribed this unless they were virtually certain.

I'm sure this has been asked already but why can't the drugs be brought over to the UK if transporting him is the real issue?

Aside from that, I'm sure I've just heard on BBC news that the US Senate is to vote tomorrow on making Charlie a US citizen. What would that do?

I think one of CA is starting to question things. Bet she gets banned or shouted down though.

Compare this child's illness to thousands of others every single day that need the trauma of parents having to let them go on the basis of clinical evidence.

This case demeans other parents in similar circumstances surely? If others don't take multiple court cases they are not good parents to their dying child.

FGS do these people not realise the trauma for other parents. It is disgusting what they are doing for themselves, their child and others in similar cirumstances.

Just my opinion tho.

I did wonder how happy the lawyers were about the current situation anyway. They presumably agreed to act initially in part because it is a high profile and interesting case, and they were in control of decisions whether to continue appealing. However, they didn't initiate this hearing or the next one but are being dragged into them anyway; the people working on the case are being prevented from doing other fee-earning casework. And it very much looks as if Connie and Chris aren't giving them all the facts. You do have to wonder whether they may reach a point when they decide that it's not professionally proper to continue.

GOSH have slapped down the White House. Let's hope Trump doesn't see that on Fox News and respond on twitter.

What did they say?

I'm not on fb but from what your all saying should fb not be shutting their group down ? If they are allowed to keep winding each other up like this someone is going to carry out one of their threats ? Surely Facebook have a responsibility in this too, this shouldn't be allowed to carry on

because they are experimental and would not reverse the brain damage already suffered. So at best they will keep him in his current state. At worse they could cause side effects . Neither of these options is a benefit to Charlie.
Drugs need to go through clinical trials, starting in animal models and then moving onto humans (who consent to this).
They havent even been tested in animals. SO you would be basically using Charlie as a guinea pig for an uniknown treatment that he gains no benefit from. And that is unethical

Tartan I'm fascinated to see what response that posting receives. The CA page moves so quickly with comments it's hard to spot something like that to then follow it

But that doesn't explain why Connie apparently suggested it was either a tracheostomy or ventilation, and that if they had gone for the former Charlie could have been at home?

Patients can go home with a trache tube, they are easier to manage and patients don't require sedation, hence why they are inserted usually with patients requiring ventilation more long term. Charlie has a nasal ET tube which I think (feel free to correct me) requires sedation to help bypass the gag reflex. If he's tolerating it without sedation this would suggest his gag reflex is compromised.

Ceto twitter.com/JoshuaRozenberg/status/884423393042468864

Tartan, good for her. She's very brave!

'PLEASE ATTACK gosh with a bazooka'

Fuck. Have reported that. (From CA)

shatner i agree. I'm not a member though and can't see the replies to that comment, there was one and I could see the first line about keeping positive, but if I tried to view the whole comment it was blank.

Thanks for the information about Legal Aid.

I wasn't sure what the position was. I doubt the pro bono counsel will want this to go on indefinitely.

I'm shocked at the libellous comments I'm reading. It shows how thick some of them are that they're defaming a judge and a QC. Although there will probably not be any action taken against them.

CA = Charlie's Army. It took me several pages of posts til the penny dropped!
This situation has become ludicrous. I'm shocked that Connie Yates shouted out 'They're lying to you' in court. Why do they think GOSH would lie? Perhaps their opinion is wrong but they're not liars. I don't think the parents are capable of listening to anyone who has an opinion other than a cure exists. Moreover wtf do 350 000 think they are qualified enough to demand Charlie travels to America? They know nothing about the child or the condition. I know nothing but I have faith in GOSH.
Sometimes parents don't know best. When your child is ill, it can be hard to make a judgement. It can be very overwhelming and you don't know what's right and what's wrong. When two of my children were born, they both had some minor issues and the hospital recommended a certain course of action. (We were living abroad in dh's home country.) Unfortunately dh comes from a family full of doctors and we were inundated with calls from uncles and cousins saying the paediatrician was talking shit and we should move hospitals. It was completely overwhelming and, particularly with ds1, left me in tears and had dh panicking. Luckily my obstetrician was a voice of calm and persuaded me to listen to the hospital. He was right thank goodness.

I'm sure this has been asked already but why can't the drugs be brought over to the UK if transporting him is the real issue?

But it isn't the real issue, and never has been. Nor is money. The issue is whether having it is in Charlie's interests.

Theoretically, the treatment could slow or stop Charlie's decline. I say theoretically because it's never been tested on Charlie's specific mitochondrial disorder. But before GOSH could give him the treatment in the UK (which they explored), Charlie suffered brain damage such that his quality of life was determined to be very poor. The issues are 1) the treatment can't help him 2) GOSH consider that keeping him alive in this state, catastrophically (their words) brain damaged and probably suffering, is in itself unethical.

Who is this Gosh person ?? Is it the lawyer thar speaks the hospitals side ?? She must be the most unpopular person in the UK right now

On the CA Facebook page, it would be funny if not so tragic. They are also demanding that his recently cut hair have chemical analysis for evidence of the Dr trying to kill Charlie.

If any of you are lurking from GOSH, sorry that you are being slated like this

I got the impression from the GOSH outline that the decision not to give him a tracheostomy was based on thinking he was too poorly to go on much longer, and therefore that the procedure would be inappropriate. I may be wrong on that though.

Also, today's hearing was, I think, an Applications Hearing in which the principle of the nature of the future legal proceedings is decided, rather than one that was ever going to see a ruling (beyond I guess the judge denying any further hearing, which would have been a de facto ruling for GOSH). So it's not out of order that the Gard team didn't have evidence at this point. They were simply there to try to get a full rehearing and at minimum to make sure that Thursday's proceedings went ahead.