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AIBU?

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Original poster

Charlie Gard case

999 replies

LovelyBath77 · 06/07/2017 09:41

AIBU to feel the drama over this poor little boy is not helpful? I read the Pope and Donald Trump were suggesting they help- when several courts have agreed it is in his best interests to let the little boy die with dignity. I feel sorry for him as he may be in pain and it is unfair to add further to false hope for the parents as well. I also feel that many, many people has awful situations where babies die, sadly, for example stillbirths and other cases which are just un-heard and un-noticed and people have to deal with it, so why is there such a huge focus here.

OP posts:
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SilverLining17 · 07/07/2017 08:12

To be honest it wouldn't be surprising if she is having a breakdown. I would given the circumstances. And the fact it's all now being played out in such a high profile way can only make it worse, although Charlie's parents have chosen to do this themselves in some ways. They may not have expected it to take off as much as it has.
I don't feel they are getting very good advice from the people directly behind them. What are their parents and friends saying? Or do they just cut off anyone who disagrees with them?

MrsFinkelstein · 07/07/2017 08:16

I can't actually just believe what you've written WhiteCat, and to be nice, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you've not slept so aren't thinking straight.

But I'm stunned that you've written that - did you just completely ignore the heartbreaking posts by people who would have willingly died for their own children? Mothers who have shared the (very painful) facts that they know exactly how Charlie's parents feel as they have been in exactly that situation?

Crass, cruel and very unfair.

RMC123 · 07/07/2017 08:18

*Whitecat
*
Doctors have known to be wrong countless times!
Don't dispute it. But this isn't one doctor, this is countless doctors who all have the same regrettable opinion. Do you really think GOSH would have gone to court and all that entails if they weren't sure?
I bet the mother would die for her child if it meant he would recover.
Absolutely sure she would. No one doubts the love of the mother. Just the fact she is too overwhelmed to cope with the facts. Doesn't really help this situation though.

Parents should decide when to let go especially since they raised the money for treatment - so there is no argument that it will burden NHS.
Disagree. Parents should not decide if their child is in pain or suffering which is made worse by their decisions. You don't have rights as parents, you have responsibilities. That is unbearably hard but it is a fact.
They have raised the money. The doctor now says it won't work. Also it is untested even on animals. This has never been about money. Do you think GOSH would have spent hundreds of thousands of pounds on legal proceedings if it had been?

I hope either Pope or Trump can influence the hospital to just stop this and let Charlie be moved elsewhere.
Stop it for who? It won't stop for Charlie then will it? He will just be suffering else where.. He is the important one here.

If the hospital won't let him go I want to know why they are prolonging his suffering (as they insist he is in pain)

I suspect because despite everything they are still trying to work with the family and support them in this terrible time.

SerfTerf · 07/07/2017 08:21

Stop it for who? It won't stop for Charlie then will it? He will just be suffering else where.. He is the important one here.

That's the key thing.

Redglitter · 07/07/2017 08:22

Apparently there's a meeting at GOSH with an 'announcement' expected later today. I hope GOSH have decided to finally let the wee soul die with a bit of dignity. They need to end this circus for everyone's sakes

LogicalPsycho · 07/07/2017 08:23

The USA have now offered to send Charlie the experimental treatment to the UK.

I fear GOSH are now in an impossible situation.

If they still refuse to reverse their decision on Charlie, they will be viewed as being unduly uncooperative.

If they change their minds and opt to try the experimental treatment, Charlie gets to remain in his terrible quality of life for a while longer.

x2boys · 07/07/2017 08:24

i have every sympathy with the parents and i think its easy for everyone sitting at home to say whet they would do in this situation when in reality they have no idea but comments like yours are just fuelling the situation and helping no one WhiteCat whilst i think the kindest thing would be for charlie to pass away peacefully im not in that situation thankfully but quite frankally CA Should be ashamed of themselves.

Xeneth88 · 07/07/2017 08:26

I'm so sorry to all those who have lost a child. X

User843022 · 07/07/2017 08:26

'whitecat wake up lovey That CA lot have brainwashed you'

Just because their opinion is different doesn't mean anyone is 'brainwashed'. Whites post was very calm, not like the hysterical CA .

Fwiw I'll say again I support gosh and believe further treatment is futile. The point is the parents are getting mixed messages from Trump offering support the Pope, medics in America, claims that their DS is suffering yet apparently he isn't on pain medication. I believe his life support should be withdrawn and he be allowed a peaceful death but I also understand why the parents are confused and I don't think shouting down anyone that agrees with them is ok.

ErnesttheBavarian · 07/07/2017 08:27

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LogicalPsycho · 07/07/2017 08:27

I hope to Christ, that if this treatment is allowed to go ahead, that Chris Gard and Connie Yates don't have the temerity to force GOSH Doctors and Nurses to keep Charlie as a patient after it.
That would be absolutely grabbing and utterly without conscience.

SerfTerf · 07/07/2017 08:28

What's to stop the tinfoil hat brigade doing the same to successive very ill children, if this case isn't handled strictly according to Charlie's best interests?

If the "doctors are wrong", "hospitals don't care about children" narrative takes hold, where does it end?

indigop · 07/07/2017 08:30

This thread has got out of hand your all as bad as CA, your not doctors you don't know if he is in pain your spouting misinformation because it suits the baying gang on the internet and your all getting riled up .. foul behaviour all round .the doctors readily admitted they don't know either way if he is indeed in pain . I guess none of us should be commenting on Charlie's medical condition as we are not HIS clinicians only they know . my Thoughts are with charlies devoted parents x

User843022 · 07/07/2017 08:32

logical and others, your awful attack on the 'grabby' parents is just as bad as CA's attack on gosh. You are just as bad.

SerfTerf · 07/07/2017 08:32

.the doctors readily admitted they don't know either way if he is indeed in pain .

No, that wasn't quite the medical evidence on that issue, was it?

SerfTerf · 07/07/2017 08:34

Besides, if the position can best be summarised as "nobody can be sure whether he feels pain or not", why would erring on the side of possibly causing more pain be the right thing?

SuperBeagle · 07/07/2017 08:35

Whether he's in pain or not is not the bloody point. How would you like to be kept in a vegetative state for months, paraded in front of the media?

goodbyestranger · 07/07/2017 08:35

WhiteCat purely in answer to your point about burden - has it occurred to you just how much an intensive care bed has cost for the six or so months since the parents first disagreed with the clinical judgment of the doctors at GOSH (and their colleagues elsewhere). However difficult the case, the refusal of the parents to accept the reality of Charlie's situation has cost a quite extraordinary amount purely in medical costs, never mind the legal costs of the case. I think only the medical teams at GOSH will know if other children have been compromised because of the months this has taken - I certainly hope they haven't, but the implications for the future are incredibly worrying if every 'very determined' but unrealistic parent fights through courts in the hope that the medics can be persuaded to act unethically.

annandale · 07/07/2017 08:35

If i were the consultant i would want to switch off the ventilator, support family and team through the immediate aftermath, then head off round the world taking all my experience and training with me. No good work goes unpunished.

LogicalPsycho · 07/07/2017 08:35

Also, it's a lot easier to say "You must do the treatment, he must survive this", when you are precisely none of the care going into keeping him alive, nor funding it either.

Free Lawyers, free paid press coverage, selling family photos, 2million in the bank, treatment offered free, but still the drive to buy Charlie merchandise from his family shop rages on...Charlie's best interests ceased to be the priority in this months ago.

CaveMum · 07/07/2017 08:37

I think it tells you everything you need to know about the experimental treatment and the Drs' motivations when you see he has said that he doesn't think the treatment will be of any use now considering Charlie's deterioration but that he's happy to go ahead anyway if the parents are willing to pay.

goodbyestranger · 07/07/2017 08:38

Sorry SerfTerf I think I've just repeated your point, using more words!

User843022 · 07/07/2017 08:39

'Besides, if the position can best be summarised as "nobody can be sure whether he feels pain or not", why would erring on the side of possibly causing more pain be the right thing?'

But it explains why the parents are confused and don't trust the medics. We've probably all looked after relatives who are on strong pain meds, the fact that their DS isn't reinforces their opinion that he can't be suffering or they'd prescribe something. I don't agree, but I can why it's conflicting.

'It's all made up media bollocks. But then there's the picture of his parents in a church, candle lit, behind an alter conveniently engraved with "suffer little children to come unto me".'
You really should be ashamed of yourself posting this ^

annandale · 07/07/2017 08:40

I'm not sure that's fair logical, there has been at least one of the child's parents at his bedside 20 hours a day for 8 months. I am sure they do all the caring they are allowed or able to do. I'd imagine they have even been encouraged to take more time for themselves, more psychological support, and who knows if they have accepted it as they may see it as attempts to separate them from their son. They might be right about that as the team will have seen these awful situations before snd would want to avoid exactly what has happened. The parents look gaunt.

Ylvamoon · 07/07/2017 08:40

x2boys I fully agree with your post.
I also think, in a few years time, when all this is over, Charlies parents had time to come to terms with the situation and time to grief probably for their son, they may well asking themselves... what have we done?
Grief, anger and hopelessness is a terrible thing and it is easy to lose focus when faced with such a horrific fate as losing your precious baby. I think the parents are victims of their own media frenzy gone wrong.
Sad, so sad!