To be disgusted at Dove for their breastfeeding advert 'put them away!

[LadyTennantofTardis]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40478372

You can't breastfeed without taking your nipples out. It's nipples that are not generally seen in public, not cleavage - some tops reveal as much as I ever did when bf. But the nipple thing is unavoidable.
I'm not sure having women talking about Dove helps the company in any way, unless we are also going to buy their products
I had a generally positive inpression of them before. But now my hand will not be lifting anything with the Dove brand on it. How does that help the company make money!

Tequila - as a breastfeeding mother I found the dove comment offensive. When I bf in public I expose no more than what I must to feed my child and I cannot for one second imagine any other mother would be different on this! Bf is not an excuse for exhibitionism for god's sake!! To be reminded that some people are uncomfortable with me bf in public is not helpful to say the least. It is akin to being reminded that some people do not like the idea of me working here because I'm an immigrant - is that acceptable to use this publicly as an advertising slogan/campaign?
I'm bf my third child, so rather confident with it but recently I've been asked twice if I needed a private room - given I am experienced and do not look uneasy etc I can only assume the offer was made because others were or could be uncomfortable and I find that rather offensive and it dents my own confidence...

Tequila, seriously that's not what they're saying.

Firstly, how often, honestly, do you see women feeding in public, with their top pulled fully down and not wearing a bra? I have never seen anyone doing that. I'm not saying it's never happened but it's not an experience that strikes a chord with me, or with most people I would suggest.

The vast majority of women who breastfeed in public aim to feed their child with the minimum of fuss and to expose only the parts of their bodies that are directly relevant to allowing their child to feed successfully and comfortably. Dove is not saying ‘we support people who find women braless and half naked feeding their children in a coffee shop to be a bit surprising’ they are saying '25% of people who see women breastfeeding in public say ‘Put Them Away’. ‘

That’s all women breastfeeding in public. Not just women with their whole upper body exposed and naked. I have never seen anything even nearly approaching that anyway – well I have, but in advertising campaigns to sell clothes, or cars, or underwear, not from women breastfeeding.

Writing copy USB

Sorry, autocomplete strikes...

Firstly, how often, honestly, do you see women feeding in public, with their top pulled fully down and not wearing a bra?

I have. (Other non feeding breast had the top over it, but the one being fed from was completely out.)

Writing copy is my job, a lot, but not all of what I do is marketing copy. There really isn't any room for ambiguity - it's not poetry. If it's not clearly saying some women prefer to bf in public then it's not saying that at all.

A designer colleague and I keep a collection of bad ads, and this will definitely make its way there. It's a terrible campaign.

I am guessing the message they wanted was an 'everyone is bitterly divided about how to be a good parent, but dove supports you' sort of vibe. That's not what they've achieved. There is no context for the stats so they read like the general public's opinion, rather than bf mums'.

This was launched in bf week. We've also recently celebrated pride, so maybe dove will also bring out an ad about how x% are fine seeing gay couples holding hands, but y% say they don't want to see - dove supports gays and bigots alike.

Tequila - I hope you recover from this obvious trauma....

Should say 'some women prefer to bf in PRIVATE' obviously

Tequila - I hope you recover from this obvious trauma..

Did I say I found it a trauma?! I was merely answering someone who said it doesn't happen.

She didn't say that it didn't happen. She said it rarely happened.

I have to say that I don't know anyone who is against feeding a crying baby though. What does that one even mean?

Other non feeding breast had the top over it, but the one being fed from was completely out

Her top was not 'fully pulled down then'
Even if she had been wearing a bra you do know you can't breastfeed through a bra, so she would have had to remove her breast from the bra regardless.

I actually specifically said in my post 'I'm not saying this never happens' so please don't quote me in the very next post as saying 'this doesn't happen'

You do refer to it as a single incident so presumably it's not your overwhelming experience of public breastfeeding, which was my point.

You have probably 'seen' loads of women breastfeeding in public and never noticed because often it is very discreet. Sometimes it's not that easy though and I think the most important things are:

Baby gets food
Mother is comfortable
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
People who don't like seeing breasts being used for their primary purpose not having their feelings hurt

The other one about being passionately against feeding a crying baby is awful as well. How can anyone be passionate about that? It's the worst choice of words.

That one also doesn't give any clue that it might be about feeding on demand vs a schedule, and doesn't say people are against feeding a baby whenever they cry, rather than trying a bit of distraction, or bouncing or whatever, it says crying baby = no food. I'm sure that's not what people actually believe, and I'm sure that's not what they meant to say, but it is what they're saying.

It's shitty marketing copy - interesting to read the post from a copy writing pro below who recognises this. Dove's marketing schtick is acceptance - our brand loves you whatever your shape or age and we think real women (bleurgh) are just as lovely as models. So when they launch a range of baby toiletries, which they have just done, they want to be coherent and consistent with the message.

It's not appropriate to parade a load of fat, thin, cute, not-cute, blond, bald, dark-haired, spotty, clear skinned babies in their ads. Babies can't buy soap. Or read.

So instead, they do this utterly stupid thing of 'accepting' people's different views on parenting. God knows where they got their statistics from, but sixty per cent of people are 'passionately' against feeding a crying baby? W T actual F??? Complete with a pic of a distressed and screaming baby. And if you ( a parent) are 'passionately' against feeding this distressed infant, that's ok 'cos Dove doesn't judge you (please buy our baby soap).

I think they have prob got hold of some survey which says 60 per cent of parents prefer a feeding routine imposed by them rather than led by the baby. Because I can't believe the majority of parents would be 'passionate ' about not feeding a screaming baby, whatever their views on routines.

It just underlines how incoherent and inconsistent their marketing is.

And why it is a big fat FAILURE.

X post with Basket :)

Totally agree. I cannot understand why they have used the word ‘passionately’ in that context and used those utterly ridiculous statistics with no background whatsoever on what the question posed was.

I can’t believe that 60% of the general public passionately believe you shouldn’t offer food to a crying baby.

'Passionate' is a marketing word, though. It's one associated with branding that tries to make a relationship with its consumers - it appeals to consumers' feelings and they think it will make a powerful connection.

I do hope they realise how mad it all is.

Completely agree, tiktok.

This is a massive failure on their part. Dove are a very standard brand - they're the kind of thing you buy on your weekly shop, not for a treat or gift. They don't really want to be controversial. Controversial and stuff for babies' skin doesn't really go together. For that you want trust and stability. A lot of baby stuff pushes the fact that it started as a product created by parents for their own children for this reason.

This campaign highlights the many misconceptions there are around bf in society. Most of my female friends without children are just as clueless and have some out with some awful stuff, it's actually widespread.

Basket, with your copy writing hat on, what do you think has happened with this?

They will have tested the copy with focus groups, yes?

I wonder if they have tested the concept, but not the wording?

I understand that tiktok I just mean of all the places you can use the word 'passionate' in an ad campaign why would you position it alongside people refusing to feed crying babies?

Surely to God there must have been better phrases to slot that into.

Part of the message 'if you're opposed to bf in public, we support you'

What fucking tool came up with that? Awful ad.

Yes, passionate is one of those words people just throw in there - it's often shocking how passionate people are when you read their CVs. David Mitchell has a funny video about it, looking at marketing materials with things like 'passionate about customer focused sales' or some crap.

I think there is a general lack of insight into the lives of mothers, and companies don't know how to treat us as proper thinking people. I have plenty of female friends who have expressed very anti mother opinions they wouldn't even recognise as being that had we not then discussed it a bit, and it's all part of the background misogyny that goes on.

The mumsnet 'nest of vipers' plays into the idea that women love to fight amongst ourselves, so we are passionately for or against something like feeding schedules, rather than rational and laid back. Most people know nothing about breastfeeding and babies because they're not featured in society, so it's all part of that environment.

The crap copy that doesn't mean anything is probably a result of people writing about something they have no knowledge of. Ad copy is very short but very difficult to get right if you don't know your stuff. The poor use of statistics is just crap. The not being clear about who they relate to being mothers or society in general comes across like they thought it doesn't matter, no one would notice.

I think the whole thing treats mothers like they're thick.

I was disgusted by this and it's been 11 years since I have breastfed!
What pisses me off it's ok for kardashians to swan about showing of their boobs and bums, porn, page 3 etc etc. Yet for a mother to give her child the best start in life is critized by everyone!!!

passionate is one of those words people just throw in there

But aren't ad agencies paid to actually think these things through and not just randomly throw buzzwords in?! Otherwise what's the point in hiring them?

I work in advertising (not in ad design) and there is no way that sort of thing wouldn't be flagged up by someone here. It's not just an oversight to not think about how 'passionate' works alongside 'don't feed your crying baby' it is an absolutely terrible job by everyone involved.

I think the whole thing treats mothers like they're thick. absolutely agree.

I've stopped buying Dove products but this cements the deal.

Her twitter feed was along the lines of baby passed a motion before I got in there

Don't read the comments. Misogynists out in force.