Re school changing rooms (swimming)

[FancyFingers]

My ds yr 2, is swimming this term with school. It's changed venue from a local school with a tiny pool, to a huge pool, which is also attached to a school, but is open to the general public as well; my son's school hire two lanes for an hour.

Anyway, he has had two sessions already and has worried me a bit with the changing facilities.

He goes in the afternoon, but wants to wear his trunks under his uniform, which is new for him. He says it's embarrassing as they have loads of "random people" in the changing room.

Apparently (according to Ds) the boys are separated from the girls. The girls have cubicles which they use in pairs, but the boys are in a the men's changing rooms which are communal.

At this point I didn't realise the pool was open to the public, and asked him who these random people are? Which he replied with "just strangers coming in and out", I thought he meant the TAs or teachers etc.

I mentioned it to the headteacher when dropping him off as they were on the gate, and this is how I know they have 2 lanes and it's open to the public. I said what my ds had said about random people, and this is what he is referring to. The ht said not to worry as they have a member of staff with them when in the changing rooms. But when I helped out with swimming last time (at the other pool) the ta would be in and out, pulled in all directions. The boys had a communal room here too, but only they were using the pool, and parent helpers had to be dbs checked of course.

I just feel bothered by this. That strangers to the children share a room with them whilst undressed basically.

Aibu and a prude? Would this bother you at all?

I can't see an issue really. Sad world when we assume every man is abusive.
Teach him to change with a towel around him if he's bothered but I'd be wondering why a 7 year old had hang ups about his body.

It's not a safeguarding issue and the school will have a RA in place anyway.

I would also query as to why a child at that age had hangups about his body.

Schools and clubs and leisure centres can't magic up spaces, and if they cannot run the business without the public being there too then they can't. There must be a teacher or TA of the same gender present throughout and NO mothers where the boys are changing (or of course vice verses) which would be a breach of the privacy and dignity of the children - let alone of the other adult users.

Any time I have been to swimming lessons with communal change the rule has been that under 8s go in the changing room appropriate to the accompanying adult so if the teacher is female they should be in the female change.

So long as a member of staff is with them then its fine so I'd just double check that a member of staff is with them the whole time and not in and out like previously.

I would also wonder at the sudden change in comfortableness about getting changed - is it possible that there's some teasing or bullying going on that might have made him suddenly want to wear his trunks under his trousers? Because its strange if he's normally ok getting changed for swimming.

'Sad world when we assume every man is abusive'
Well if you're a regular on mn you'll know many do.
I don't, however I just think logistically having many small dc getting undressed with unknown strangers isn't an ideal situation. Sadly there would be people who would take advantage of this situation and be voyeuristic, to think otherwise is very naïve.

The OP has explained that through first hand experience she is aware that the TA or teacher is 'pulled in all directions' and 'in and out' of the room. So there are brief instances where supervision of the children may be less than adequate.

As a child of 7/8 I remember being shy/embarrassed about bring naked in front of others and it was horrible. I can absolutely understand why the OP's ds may feel uncomfortable about being naked in front of others, especially strangers.

For those who say that a child must have some sort of 'problem' or whatever if they feel uncomfortable being naked in front of people other than those they know and trust, that's so short sighted. Children can and do feel embarrassment and maybe in an ideal world they wouldn't, but this isn't an ideal world is it, everybody is different.

And for the record I wouldn't want my DD (8) naked in front of a load of strangers either. YANBU OP.

BarbarianMum makes a good point. If all the TAs are female then surely there's something missing here. Do they stay in the communal men's changing room whilst it's still open to members of the public or are they leaving the kids in there by themselves? I would think that a man/men wouldn't want to use the communal changing while there are women in there.

I would also query as to why a child at that age had hangups about his body

Really?

I have 3 ds's and the older ones are 7 and 9. Going back a year and ds2 would have happily strutted around a swimming pool (or anywhere) naked. Now he's starting to take more care, naturally...if he's running around naked at home (which he still has no issue with!) and someone knocks the door, he'll run and stick a pair of joggers on. At swimming he now prefers to shower in a cubicle rather than strip naked in the communal and he'll mostly walk around in a towel, changing as quick as he can so that 'no one sees my bum'.

Ds1 started to develop the same sort of awareness at that age...completely normal IME.

YANBU to be concerned and follow this up. At my child's last school a member of the public accessed the changing room the school was using and to be blunt, took the girls clothes and wanked over them.

He was caught the second week it happened.

FWIW, I had a horrible experience in a swimming changing room when I was about 7 - a horrible woman (a total stranger) yanked back the curtain of the changing room I was in (I was naked) and shouted at me. I remember feeling scared and humiliated. It still makes me feel angry when I remember it.

All of the swimming pools near us have communal changing "villages" for both sexes to use at once. There are separate cubicles and also a couple of big changing rooms which I've seen school groups using (girls in one / boys in the other).

This might be the setup for the PP who was supervising the boys changing (to explain to posters who are asking how there could be a female supervisor in the men's changing rooms - there might not be any "men's" changing rooms).

...and it's anecdote time...hurrah!

Let's just add that 98% of all abuse is from Granddad or Uncle Jim, or even the child's father, to even things up a bit.

It's not abuse that's the issue here - it's voyeurism.

You cannot stop kids doing normal and necessary things for fear of being 'viewed'. Those are sick people and you can't control their thoughts and shouldn't withdraw your child from normal life for fear of being viewed like that.

I just feel bothered by this. That strangers to the children share a room with them whilst undressed basically

The exact same way as any boys who go with their family to the pool? The same why my children are in a room with strangers while I change them at the pool?

You know, how swimming pools actually work?

Your children are being viewed 'like that' probably a few times a week while fully clothed walking down the street. Certainly on the beach. Certainly as they swim. Probably as they perform in any show. I don't care if some sick person is unable to view my naked child appropriately as long as they keep it to themselves and never take any action. I can't control what goes on in other people's heads but won't treat my children like victims for it and keep them from doing normal things for fear of it. It's happening all the time, just like some awful men I would never touch have probably had dirty thoughts about me but I refuse to cover myself and hide because if it.

I don't like it either.

One of the pools I worked at had a communal changing room 'changing village' and generally all the children could find a cubical when shared.

I worked as swimming coach/teacher for ten years and I'm afraid magicpaint is actually right. It happens more than you like to think. What's even worse is actually trying to prove that somebody isnt there to do that.

I think 'villages' work great when parents are there to supervise their own children but when you get minimum helpers and a class full of kids it does leave the door open for vulnerability.

Also why are only the girls allowed changing cubicles? Are boys not allowed privacy too?

You might not care yournot but I and lots of others do. There is a difference from teaching your child not to be a victim and allowing the body autonomy and privacy.

ive ten years experience in working on pools and I hate mixed changing rooms.

Allowing them **

Well, of course I care, but firstly I can't treat every person like they're a pervert, and secondly I don't think it achieves anything to teach your child that everyone should be assumed to be a pervert. What someone else is thinking is of no harm to my child if they keep in in their head. Then my kid can get on with just changing like you need to and going swimming.

Are the cubicles which the girls use unisex, OP? If so, why doesn't the swimming pool reserve the communal changing room for pupils only when schools are present, and direct any adult swimmers to the cubicles?

I wouldn't be happy about this at all. You have to be DBS checked to do anything with kids these days, but yet it appears that the school and swimming pool is making it possible for random strangers to see large numbers of boys naked and also be seen naked by the same group of boys. Surely a safeguarding fail?

I think I'd spend some time teaching my son how to take his trunks off and put on his pants with the towel wrapped around him. Would a towelling dressing gown be a step to far?

Yes, by and large the British are prudes. I say that as a British person.

I emigrated to a country famed for its swimming pools. Everyone must shower naked before they get in the pool. Children over the age of 6 must go in the changing room appropriate to their sex (barring any medical or developmental issues that would mean they need a parent's help and only the opposite sex parent is there). So a 6 year old boy going to the pool with his mum would go in the men's by himself, and the opposite for a 6 year old girl going to the pool with her dad. Everyone gets used to being naked around other naked people in a normal, non-sexual context from a very young age and the kids don't get embarrassed because they consistently get the message that there's nothing to be embarrassed about. In Britain children do soon enough learn to be ashamed of nakedness, I agree - it happened to me too and it took work to get over it. But it's definitely a cultural thing, not something innate.
I actually think it's really positive. You see bodies of all different shapes, sizes and ages (and up to the age of 6 you'll see the opposite sex as well) and it's just not a big deal. In fact I think it helps people have a better perspective on normality. Tourists from the the UK and North America are terrible about it, trying to skip the showers, trying to shower with their suits already on - it's very unhygienic and nobody is looking at their bits anyway. Thankfully there are usually no lack of people willing to tell them off. There is no epidemic of abuse going on in swimming pool changing rooms.

I remember the 'discreet' changing and the sense of uneasiness from my own childhood and while practically it probably isn't possible to change an entire culture, I just don't think it's healthy. There's nothing wrong with adults and children who don't know each other being temporarily naked together in the same room in a totally normal and justified context like getting changed for swimming. Nakedness is not inherently sexual.

Especially since there's an adult there looking out for them, I don't see the problem.

What do you think is going to happen to him in a public place with a lot of children and some men? It is not as though your child is getting changed on his own with a paedophile. Most people are not sexually aroused by naked children.