Sat I hairdressers on two seater couch and other woman waiting is chugging on e-cig

[whoahokeycokey]

Just this really. I've got colour on waiting for it to take and as it's a small hairdressers (3 chairs) they rotate us whilst colour set etc. The woman next to me is chugging away on her e-cig. It stinks of some rancid sweet smell.
Why is it acceptable to whip these things out? I've noticed a lot that they are used in places where smoking is not allowed. I know my 2nd hand inhalation isn't going to cause me a great harm but it's making my teeth itch!

Now that big tobacco companies are funding resarch into e-cigarettes and are seeing them as a viable replacement to conventional cigarettes as a means of making massive profit, and people are constantly being told it is harmless, I guess we'll just have to find out the hard way how harmless or harmful it is.

@roundaboutthetown

Same could be said for nuclear power all around the UK as a viable alternative to other methods of electricity supply.

Somewhow I think a whiff of a vape seems far safer than nuclear fallout.

a bit of fixing the tests

Yes it's very bad when people fix tests. Who remembers when scientists tried to claim that vaping produced dangerous levels of formaldehyde? They actually claimed it was up to 15 times as dangerous as smoking because of this.

Turns out they used a tank designed to be used at 3.7V but instead used it at 5V in a machine designed to measure the output from cigarettes (so no humans involved). Just like the diesel car tests there was a failure to consider real world conditions.

!

sodablackcurrant - so you would have no problem with reversing the ban on real cigarette smoking in enclosed public spaces, then? And allowing any other type of new and unnecessary air pollution, on the basis there are already lots of diesel cars and petrol cars and nuclear power stations?

I find if you ask someone not to vape around you it makes their brains explode to the point where they are only capable of the following responses

Yep. I was on the bus taking DD to a hospital appointment one stupid early morning so bus was practically empty.

Bloke a few seats down from us started vaping and started kicking off big time when the driver asked him to put it out. There's now signs on all the buses saying no smoking or vaping please.

Roundabouthetown,

The danger of nuclear fallout is a lot more evident than someone vaping.

If you had the choice would you prefer to be closer to a vaper than a nuclear power station in meltdown?

Well put it out / turn it off. I've never smoked or vaped so don't know what the correct terminology is.

But that's just a silly question, sodablackcurrant. Like asking would someone rather have a nasty cold or die. I would rather avoid both. At least a nuclear power station provides useful energy and meltdowns are more rare than vapers. A vaper just provides a stink that benefits nobody, just does the vaper less harm than smoking, which they would not be allowed to inflict on me on a bus.

why not a medicinal product if its purpose is to help people stop smoking?

Because you end up with a dull but perfectly safe medicalised product that no-one wants to use. We already have a range of medicinal NRT products. Without additional support from stop smoking services their success rate is worse than cold turkey. Why on earth would we want to emulate that? It doesn't matter how safe a smoking cessation product is, if nobody wants to use it then it's shit.

Ecigs work because they are highly customisable consumer products with a fast innovation cycle and don't position smokers as 'patients' who need 'medicine'. Point me at the nicotine gum forums. Show me where to get a ticket to the next NRT patch festival. It doesn't happen, does it?

Vaping's biggest selling point is that it makes smokers excited about quitting. When has that ever happened before? All we have to do is not fuck it up and we can make massive inroads into the death toll from smoking.

The ecig industry is overwhelmingly made up of SME started by vapers themselves. None could afford medicinal regulation. Many are struggling with the far less onerous TPD regs. Med regs would be a great way of handing the entire industry to the big tobacco and pharma companies.

There is a place for medicinal ecigs. That place is prisons, long stay MH wards and super cautious smokers who otherwise would not try vaping.

There is so far only one ecig that has a medicinal licence. It's produced by a tobacco company. How you feel about that will be a good indicator of where your priorities lie.

I vape loads, but I adhere to the same rules as cigarette smokers. it's rude otherwise.

roundabout.

Would you agree or not that the result of a nuclear fallout/accident would be worse than a few vapers in your vicinity?

Of course the other snag is that if people were using medicinally regulated ecigs that had been prescribed to them you couldn't reasonably order them outside. There would be legal implications to that.

PencilsInSpace - and, of course, making it appealing eventually appeals to non-smokers and it can become fashionable like smoking was. And the big tobacco firms eventually take over the little suppliers, anyway. And those people who do not want to breathe in other people's vapes have to wait for 50 years for the proof that inhaling something unnecessarily is actually harmful for non-smokers who had the right to avoid the entirely unnecessary harm taken away from them. People got used to not smoking in enclosed, public spaces. This is just finding another way to inflict unnecessary discomfort and possibly long term harm on others, because vaping addicts do not personally find it unpleasant or antisocial.

sodablackcurrant - would you or would you not agree that a contaminated e-cigarette product that harms the user is more likely than a nuclear meltdown and that you are more likely to die from being run over than a nuclear meltdown?

I think the risk of harm from smoking is hugely more significant than the risk of a nuclear meltdown. We don't know how significant the risk would be from a massive increase in social vaping in public spaces.

For me it's the same as spraying perfume - I wouldn't welcome a stranger doing that in an enclosed space, particularly without asking, and likewise as I don't like the smell of many vapes I'd rather not be near someone doing it.

But I don't have a problem with people vaping generally and it's far better in my eyes than smoking. At least my clothes /hair don't stink from being beside someone doing it (as far as I'm aware!)

and, of course, making it appealing eventually appeals to non-smokers and it can become fashionable like smoking was.

You can bet that PH are keeping a very close eye on this. To date, there is no evidence of this happening among adults or children at all. For those who have not previously become addicted to smoking, vaping doesn't appear to be getting anybody hooked. ASH's factsheet on nicotine and addiction examines why this might be.

And the big tobacco firms eventually take over the little suppliers, anyway.

Well gee, thanks for your pessimism. SME vape businesses have been holding their own very nicely up til now and dominating the market. Over regulation will most certainly make it harder for them to do so. Do you think this would be a good thing?

And those people who do not want to breathe in other people's vapes have to wait for 50 years for the proof that inhaling something unnecessarily is actually harmful for non-smokers who had the right to avoid the entirely unnecessary harm taken away from them.

You haven't had any rights taken away from you. Vaping has never been banned, it has always been up to individual businesses to make their own rules. Why do you persist in classifying vapour with smoke? We have known for ages that inhaling smoke from burning stuff (ANY smoke from ANY burning stuff) is bad for you. Vaping is simply not in the same category.

People got used to not smoking in enclosed, public spaces.

People, including vapers and smokers, are still used to not smoking in enclosed public spaces.

This is just finding another way to inflict unnecessary discomfort and possibly long term harm on others, because vaping addicts do not personally find it unpleasant or antisocial.

Yes that's all it is, just another way we've found to piss you off, obviously

I am so glad that public health in this country disagrees with you so strongly.

Burger King on a train is disgusting, it smells like sewage.

Surely lack of regulation also increases the risk that people are vaping substances with toxic chemicals in? Why allow the widespread use in public spaces of something unregulated for which the long term health risks are largely unknown? As for public health in this country, it has been based on the premise so far that vaping is not going to become a trendy or wiedspread thing to do. If it does become trendy, you can guarantee it will become more regulated. And young people who have never smoked are beginning to try it out for social reasons, and you have said yourself that e-cigarette use has increased hugely in recent years. It is becoming an unsurprising thing to see and vaping shops have started opening up on town high streets. There is obvious, massive commercial potential in it as an industry. I presume you can vape all sorts of things if you want to if it's also an unregulated industry. Vaping is not limited to replacement tobacco products. Who knows what's coming out of the unregulated ends of e-cigarettes and even if the user knows what's in them (unlike the passive vaper), who knows as of yet exactly how safe they are to inhale? It really is not that long ago that even doctors told patients that cigarettes were good for clearing the chest. The man whose research proving it was extremely harmful had a massive fight on his hands to prove what everyone now accepts was bloody obvious. So excuse me if I don't feel as confident as you about the safety of drawing unnecessary pollutants into your lungs, whatever form they are in.

Fun and games.

Like I said, there will always be the clutching pearl brigade. I suspect many are failed something or other. Always judging others. So tedious.

Spend your time on tobacco smoking. At least that has been proven to be carcinogenic and the smell of it ugh.

But Uh oh, I forgot, that ship has sailed, so NEXT.... lol.

Anyway, how is everyone? Enjoying yourselves I hope.

Yes, it is a good thing that some people kept clutching their pearls about cigarette smoking, isn't it, despite those aggressive people who tried to dismiss their valid concerns, eg, by arguing being in Hiroshima at the wrong time would have done them more harm than a little bit of passive smoking.

As a matter of interest, what is calling people "pearl clutchers," and suspecting "they have failed at something or other" if it is not judging others?

Vaping is not smoking. There is no smell, there is nothing but a cloud of steam like out of your kettle.

But there is always someone who will denigrate everything. Have to have a cause du jour. Life could be meaningless otherwise.

Constant battlers. And while you are battling there are much more sinister elements going on behind the scenes. It is Big Government telling you what to do and what to protest about.

It all boils down to diminishing tobacco excise duties. Got to keep them smoking tobacco. But the excise duty will apply to vaping within a year or two anyway, guaranteed.

Nothing to do with health, a lot to do with the coffers.

Think about it.

Think about the fact that vaping is not water vapour, nor does it smell like it.

And I have not seen the remotest sign of Big Government telling me not to like vaping. Plenty of evidence it doesn't like smoking much, though, despite the pressure from Big Tobacco, which is now getting actively involved in vaping products as an alternative means of making profit. My understanding that the lungs are no more designed to inhale glycerine, flavourings and nicotine than tobacco smoke is what puts me off people being allowed to vape wherever and whenever they want, regardless of who else is around them at the time.