Or is toast with honey a perfectly acceptable breakfast for a 4yo?

[n0ne]

Just that, really. DD(4) is asking for toast with honey for breakfast. DH is telling her she can't have it. I ask why, he says it's just pure sugar and looks at me like I've got two heads. Surely toast with honey is a perfectly normal breakfast option? It's not like she eats it every day (or in fact ever before).

DH is foreign, if that makes a difference. He has some really weird (to me) ideas about what is and isn't an acceptable meal

Christ on a bike, this thread has just gone completely bananas (or bonkers, don't want to be accused of spoiling it with calories).
The debate isn't OTT, it has jumped the shark completely. People, are you mad?
I have no problem with me or my child eating Nutella, honey (in fact, I have a fantastic pine honey from a local producer in my cupboard an I love it), ice-cream or chocolate. Not fat-free products enter my house. It's proper butter, full fat milk, good quality chocolate and crisps when we feel like it. I'd dare anyone calling us obese or in danger of becoming so.

Although muscles can use fatty acids and amino acids when carb energy is lacking, the brain can’t. It relies on blood sugar derived from carbs to operate, and the supply needs to be constant and significant. Brain cells can’t store energy, yet require double the amount of the other cells in the body. As a result, a diet that severely limits carbs can slow the processing of auditory and visual information, delay thinking and compromise long-term memory. A study published in 2009 in the journal "Appetite" found that low-carb dieters suffered a decrease in memory performance tests until ample carbohydrates returned to their diets.

'ideally we don't want to spend the last few decades with lifestyle-related ill health with the symptoms managed by drugs. I'd rather not anyway. There is simply no getting away from the fact that what we consume affects our bodies on a biochemical level and over time can really fuck things up. Either care or don't care. We don't have to be obsessed with it though, there's balance.'

Nah, 'we' (whoever that is) would rather spend the last few decades reaping the benefit of food obsession but demented out of our skulls and not knowing who the hell we are.

I've got a suggestion for 'us'? Can we find and use some synonyms for the word 'balance' because it's giving me the rage and fucking up my biochemistry.

And no one's bothered to answer my question! WTF is a 'scrape' of honey? Define, please.

I use vegan Flora spread myself, as I'm lactose intolerant, so the honey toast doesn't have butter and it's not on wholemeal bread (collapses).

I use vegan Flora spread myself, as I'm lactose intolerant, so the honey toast doesn't have butter and it's not on wholemeal bread (collapses).

expat, seriously. You shouldn't be admitting those sins in the open. You know very well you are slowly killing yourself with the horrendous sugar on fat on sugar layers of completely empty calories and every toast takes away a year off your life expectation.

This is classic 'worried well' isn't it? I work in a very deprived area and sadly children here are not obese because they have toast and honey for breakfast. They are having Greggs sausage rolls and cheesy wotsits and fruit shoots and packets of sweets.

Honey on toast is not suitable for breakfast on its own. There is not enough protein for the most important meal of the day that gets the child up and running. It is okay for a mid morning snack in an appropriate portion and okay for a mid afternoon snack but it is not okay for breakfast.

Breakfast needs to be high protein and if the child is drinking milk there is plenty of sugar in that at breakfast. Bread is also high in sugar. So honey on toast is sugar on sugar and served with milk - more sugar.

It isn't a matter of 'bad food' it is a matter of it not being enough for an entire meal to provide a young child with the fuel they need to keep going and to stay bright and alert and able to learn and maintain a happy mood until the next meal. It will also make them more hungry for the next meal and lead to them over eating as well as being grumpy and over tired when they get the sugar crash.

Give kids tastes of this sort of thing - fine. But not as the entire meal. A small bit of it as well as something sensible once in a while - okay. Just on its own - nope.

What do you serve for a typical breakfast, Banana?

I just had a massive slice of lemon drizzle cake.

So...butter and eggs for protein.
Flour and sugar for carbs.
Sugar, lemon and flour all plant-based.

I'm winning at this!

How can a 4 year old overeat unless someone lets them? There isn't an endless supply of food at school is there?

God now even milk is just 'sugar'... I give up!

My honey isn't even locally sourced. It's from fucking miles away.

On the strength of the strictures in this thread I have made some frozen yoghurt cups with fruit in them. Omigod, my poor lithe and lovely dd who beats me in a game of chess in the morning- I must be poisoning her with .... cereal or .... Nutella on wholemeal toast. The shame . Oh the shame.

reuset I thought your last question was rhetorical for a moment there.

well someone IS letting a lot of 4 year olds overeat. Probably the hilarious posters on here who don't believe any of the dietary advice, who are 'over egging' the pudding and twisting the posts of anyone who hasn't said their kids eat fruit shoots and buns for breakfast sometimes.

these people are idiots who don't understand research because they ate shit in the 70's and are 'only overweight now' cos #snort WINE O'CLOCK and cheeky Nandos and stuff, all balanced though

I believe in geriatric care they point out that it doesn't matter how expertly nutritious a meal is if it doesn't get eaten.

No protein? Shittest argument ever. There's protein in bread, people. If you made a ham sandwich there'd be the same or more protein in the bread than in the ham...

Well yes, some four year olds are overweight, but the problem of feeling hungry after an unsubstantial breakfast leading to snacking isn't happening in school is it? They can't nip out of a lesson for a snack.

The most important meal of the day idea has also been discredited.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/nov/28/breakfast-health-america-kellog-food-lifestyle

So honey on toast is sugar on sugar and served with milk - more sugar.

I give in. Breads are carbs- not exactly the same as sugar. Milk is protein. A totally sugar free diet would be a) impossible asnd b) really unhealthy.

Hoddtastic, back for another biscuit Greedy!

The poster who occasionally feeds their children processed bacon and sausages for breakfast, but won't contemplate honey on toast as 'sugar is bad'

My late mum was told by seniors' dietician that at least cereals were fortified with vitamins. Don't always turn your nose up at them.

Yes hoddtastic and overwhelmingly it's the overweight parents who are letting their 4 year olds become obese.

And IME a lot of them are obsessed with diet so their children don't become like them. But they're still not getting it right.

Banana
Your qualifications as a dietitian (as apposed to a nutritionist) are what?

*opposed

hoddtastic, I don't believe in any ridiculous dietary advice. I don't believe that you can't serve a 4y old toast with honey because it's "pure sugar". The fuck it is and those who claim that should read up on benefits of good quality honey.
And, no, I don't believe I'm overweight either. Neither is my DH and my DD. The only chubster in the family is our youngest cat who's on a diet because she was getting fed by a kind but confused neighbour on top of the food she got from us.

Hoddtastic you sound ridiculous now

I think this is ok... but I would, because my nearly four-year old has honey on a rice cake nearly every morning! She also has a piece of fruit and something with protein in it, which might mean another rice cake with peanut butter and Marmite, or a Nakd nut bar. We try to get dairy/calcium in other meals since we don't do cereal usually.

I know cereals are more normal but they can have an awful lot of 'hidden' sugars in too. I go for porridge if we have a long lazy breakfast.