To ask - Jeremy Corbyn - PM

[MommaGee]

There's stuff about how he thinks he'll be PM in 6 months. How the GLASTO coverage is a BBC plot to "see a MARXIST in power" etc etc but how?
TM is hardly going to call another election and Labor are likely to keep her long enough to get through the crap that is Brexit.

Apologies for all those thinking in thick but I don't see how JC has any even inkling of getting it, let alone a discussion on how much swing he'd need

Wrt and Enthus if thatvis the case you would know all this revolution mantra is a load of God's

Yes by the way me too regarding membership but that's easy to claim. And I didn't vote for either Corbyn or Blair. Also means I don't believe everything I read. But you carry on watching the welfare state being dismantled and harking about the concerns of a revolution. I shout dog whistle

Cods

I have been reading in full what Corbyn and McDonnell have been saying

I also receive Labour Party membership emails and the narrative has certainly changed

What McDonnell said this weekend was purposely provocative to create more anger yet what else has he said recently that could actually be constructive

You know, the very same tower blocks built in the 60s with one stairwell and an often broken lift that have stood in every city in the land through successive Labour governments.

Many of these blocks are not safe. They should have been brought up to standard or demolished and replaced by safe social housing.

I cannot speak as to whether, if Jeremy Corbyn had been PM for the past twenty years, this would have been accomplished. He has spoken at great length about our sorry social housing situation - from safety to the waste of privatisation.

Social housing is a key part of Labour's current manifesto.

You only have to go to a Russian city or any other ex-communist nation to see the kind of housing produced under that kind of regime. Miles upon miles of utilitarian boxes, produced at the cheapest expense for the masses and then left to rot.

The cladding had nothing to do with making life better for residents of Grenfell Tower and everything to do with making the view nicer for those living nearby.

Comparing Stalinism to Corbynism is beyond hysterical.

'You know, the very same tower blocks built in the 60s with one stairwell and an often broken lift that have stood in every city in the land through successive Labour governments. Really? Would a JC administration have prevented the cladding and checked all fridges?'

This!! ^

I don't get the 'no one cares about the poor people' argument. It wasn't a sink estate in Manchester, it was a block full of smart flats with £2000 plus rents a month. Cheap by Kensington standards but just a normal tower block. How these were ever built with only one stairwell Ive no idea. The problem is the regulations and the builders/contractors interpretation.

Under a proper, left wing government, the conditions that led to the cladding being used would have been less likely to have arisen.

A stop would have been put to social housing being sold off. New social housing built, and that that already existed properly invested in.

There would be very heavy taxes on buying property as an investment, leaving properties uninhabitated or BTL, thus discouraging the number of empty properties.

There wouldn't have been a need for another load of private housing in an already heavily populated area.

Plentiful social housing acts as a brake on the private rental market and also house prices. There would still be some sensible relationship between income and cost of housing in large cities.

The blocks were built with only one stairwell as per regulations at the time. The way they were built was that fire will be contained in one flat. The material that they were built with burns very slowly, giving people sufficient time to get out and the fire brigade a chance to access the building and put the fire out from inside.

I've seen plenty of tower blocks with one flat burnt out. It was the cladding that spread the fire so quickly, not the inherent nature of a tower block.

Under a proper, left wing government, the conditions that led to the cladding being used would have been less likely to have arisen.

Why? The 'proper left wing government' are hardly likely to build the flats with their own fair hands. They'd still need to buy materials from somewhere. Like they did when grenfell was built.

But many people have benefited hugely from being able to buy their council home

A policy to not buy it sounds more appealing to those who don't live in social housing but many who live in it would love to be able to get on the property ladder and won't be able to any other way

User cladding has been used country wide for energy saving and yes for aesthetics. But mainly justified through energy saving.

I see it in insalubrious areas. I live long way from any elite!

*Why won't traditional labour voters vote Tory

They might under the right leader Thatcher won over many many traditional Labout voters*

Enthusiasm, i posted a link earlier on this - working class 'traditional' labour voters appear to have swung to Tory this time - Jeremy got the middle class voters to swing to Labour.

again Christina, you said that tories didn't care about human damage. That's hardly reasoned policy debate...

Exactly, christinarossetti.

Again, I know Tories would love to get back on track with their defenestration of the state. I understand that you've had time to regroup.

But the problem, again, is not really about particulars. The very system of allowing free markets complete and total freedom doesn't work with things like social housing.

These things require development and monitoring, or else things like safety just get pushed aside completely. People have been shouting about these things for a long, long time. And yet with the mindset that the free market solves all ills.....nothing was done.

There is a big question here Tories must address. It goes to the core. Not about whether a particular road is too potholed, not whether a certain school in Bridgeville is doing a little better or worse this year.

The cladding had nothing to do with making life better for residents of Grenfell Tower and everything to do with making the view nicer for those living nearby.

Cos poor people don't give a toss what their homes look like . This narrative comes straight from the myth that working class gardens contain bricks, a broken telly, a sofa with springs sticking out and a staffy. Can we not have pride in where we live? Are nice things only for the rich?

This is exactly the kind of paternalistic and 100% wrong mindset that fuels Corbyn and his middle-class followers. And no, I'm not a bloody Tory - that is a pathetic and lazy slur.

I remember tower blocks years ago, like 40 years ago. They were absolutely minging places. They are hugely improved.

I agree we need more social housing and more safety checks.

We have had labour govts in the past, not sure why they didn't create a utopia when they were in power then, and why people believe that they can or would do it now

but many who live in it would love to be able to get on the property ladder

But why not build more social housing to replace?

'User cladding has been used country wide for energy saving and yes for aesthetics. But mainly justified through energy saving.I see it in insalubrious areas. I live long way from any elite!'

Yes, same here. Regeneration is surely a good thing. Obviously not at the cost of safety but whoever manufactured, distributed and signed off on combustible cladding are the ones to blame.

Sorry Enthusiasm, should have read the rest before posting...
Just read you & others talking about the working class swing away from Labour.

Wrt nasty Tories, Labour is good & caring - the evacuated tower blocks in Labour controlled Camden were not just covered in the dangerous cladding, but also missing over 1000 fire doors as well as other failings.

Weirdly, John McDonnell has not been vocal about this shocking failure.

We have had labour govts in the past, not sure why they didn't create a utopia when they were in power then, and why people believe that they can or would do it now
If you're talking about the Blair years, that wasn't a Labour government. It was Tory lite.

Yes, same here. Regeneration is surely a good thing. Obviously not at the cost of safety but whoever manufactured, distributed and signed off on combustible cladding are the ones to blame.
Along with those who allowed cheaper materials to be used.

"Comparing Corbynism to Stalinism is beyond hysterical"

Yes obviously, but I was responding to some of the "Capitalists your time has come" rhetoric on here.

I fi think that if Corbyn had been in power over the last 20 years or so, our cities would be filled with even more poor quality social housing in dire need of upkeep.

hang on - weren't a lot of these awful tower blocks built by labour councils - anyone remember our friends in the north? The idea that corruption, or shoddily built buildings is the preserve of the tories can't remember any history.

A bit like economic liberalism - on average, it makes people better off. The debate is polarized by Corbyn and the current tories to extremes - he's against markets in any form, whereas we need correction of market failures, not a lurch back to everything being state owned. The current conservative party is too extreme in favour of not making life better for the people that have been hurt by free markets.

I would rather money made from the sale of social housing is put towards building more social housing but now that being able to buy the property you have lived in for years and paid rent towards has been policy for a good thirty years how is it fair to take it away as many on the left are proposing (many I guess who are home owners)

many on the left of labour would rather put a stop to the selling of social housing altogether

It is certainly easier to manage when you know who is living in the property (of course there will always be an issue of sub letting) no private property owners etc do people in social housing need to be managed in such a way

And yes having lived in a tower block I am sure I would have liked it to look nicer of course safety comes first but people want a nice place to live too - working class people believe it or not have aspirations too