to believe a nearly 8 year old should be able to do this

[Dreambee]

DS1 is nearly 8 but his behaviour means he is still not able to independently get ready for bed or for going out anywhere without constant reminders, countdowns, warnings, threats, rewards, time-outs and full on arguments. He is physically fine, however can be easily over-stimulated and has the short-term memory of gnat. He is generally a lovely and caring boy and is usually good with his younger siblings, but he is extremely focussed on himself (like all children I know) so he often refuses to bend his will and can become very slow and passively obstructive. He is also quite immature and while he often thinks in imaginary way, he is also very logical and often very bright.

So DH and I really think that by this age he should be able to put on clothes, brush teeth, and put on shoes without finding a distraction, laying on the floor, messing around or claiming that he doesn't know what to do. I have been reading Alfie Kohn and I like his ideas but DS is often so uncooperative I don't see how to get him to want to do these basic and unavoidable daily activities. I am not interested in reward charts or focussing on punishment as I think they lead to short term motivation that is often not sustained.

Are my expectations unreasonable?

Do you think he might have add

YANBU but my dreamy 8yo does still need reminding to do these things and we often have to tell him twice. Don't take him as your model of normality tho! !

You're not unreasonable to expect and indeed on rare occasions he will surprise you and do these things independently. Unfortunately, I am still expecting this level of independent thinking from a household of 19 to 8 year olds, so it's taking a long time to develop consistently .
Keep at it. He knows what he needs to do, he'd just rather do anything else at that precise moment, even if it is to get ready to go somewhere he really wants to be. Kids are capable of endless prevarication, even if it ends up being to their own detriment.

Does he have ASD? Sounds identical to my 7 yr old who has autism and really struggles with remembering sequences.

Yes Ginlovinglady we considered ADD but he had an ed psych assessment last year and there was no concerns here as he CAN concentrate on tasks and for a long time. But this is for tasks that he is he interested in such as building something, playing a board game or reading a book.

Have you tried a picture schedule of all the steps eg put on socks, put on trousers, then shoes etc to help him remember the stages?

My son can concentrate for hours on building LEGO but if I send him upstairs to get his shoes he will go up and then forget what he has gone upstairs for. His brain just really struggles with sequencing.

Cakes yes, while there is probably no ADD the ed psych said there were elements of high functioning autism (Aspergers in old money). He does get so fixed on things and I guess cannot motivate himself to do something his is not intrinsically interested, despite having his parents turn into dragons each day.

Sounds like aspergers to me. My friends son is 11 & cant do anything for himself without constant reminding & sometimes physical help

I would suggest looking at strategies then that would be used with children with ASD. It's a totally different mindset and you will need to adjust how you approach it all as just verbally telling him might not work as he could struggle to retain the instructions. Visual supports work brilliantly for us but my son still needs supervision to complete tasks etc.

My friend's ds is similar. He's got better in the past year. He's nearly 9. He is NT.

I think you are over reacting, sounds perfectly normal behaviour at that age who are still learning boundaries and how to become independent.

Visual timetables could be useful to help him sequence getting ready for bed etc. Have you tried using timers - you can do this for X minutes until time is up then it's time for Y.

A kitchen timer can work, my son is better with a big egg timer type as he can see how long is left, we have some for 1, 5, 10 minutes. My son has ASD.

My 7.5 DS is very similar tbh. Very bright and on the ball about things he enjoys, memory of an elephant and great at getting dressed etc when he wants to. If it's something he isn't interested in or motivated by, then he's impossible and I end up getting cross because he's either refusing to co-operate, or he's wandered off and is doing something different.

We've had reward charts and he co-operates until he gets the reward but they don't change his long term behaviour so I don't use them anymore.

the ed psych said there were elements of high functioning autism (Aspergers in old money)

I echoCakescakescakes You might make life easier for everyone if you try using strategies for kids on the spectrum, rather than treating him as an NT child being disobedient.

If he has ASD traits then yes, I'm afraid you are being unreasonable.

Transitioning from one activity/place/mindset to another is hard for an autistic person and they often procrastinate to the nth degree. It doesn't even need to mean they like what they're doing - they just dislike change more.

It also can affect executive functioning, so the chaining of things necessary to transition from one place or activity to another just don't happen unless you prompt. There's a technique called, "backward chaining" which might help you.

The other thing that helped me was to use fewer words. The example we were given was: what do you say to get someone to stop a car suddenly? So don't give a long sentence chuntering about why they've not put their shoes on. Just calmly say, "shoes. Shoes. Shoes," and then wait, and if necessary repeat until done.

A lot of caring for an autistic child is bloody hard work, to be honest. Mine is delightful, loving, fiercely clever and a complete joy. But we have to factor in endless extra time to do anything, over and above the average. Once you accept that, it gets easier because it becomes the new normal, if that makes sense.

And the more irritated and fed up I get, the more anxious he does and the more delays there are. So extra time for everything and clearly explaining and giving five minute warnings prior to doing anything are really helpful in making me feel in control, too.

Incidentally, I have ADD. I also have intense hyper-focus as a linked coping mechanism (it's especially common in women, apparently, and it's pretty much normal for autistic kids/people), and read law at Cambridge. The ability to concentrate intensively on things that interest you a lot is not evidence someone hasn't got ADD. It can mean the opposite, in some cases.

You might make life easier for everyone if you try using strategies for kids on the spectrum, rather than treating him as an NT child being disobedient.

This. I just said the same thing, only in four or five paragraphs.

He sounds very much like my Hf asd 7yo. Struggles with multiple step instructions but very caring, bright and yes sometimes can be very stubborn.
For school in the morning if he is ready in time he can watch a bit of TV before we leave. If not we don't so that motivates him. I may have to shout up once to remind him but he's pretty good. His main problem actually is getting distracted. If he gets dressed it takes him no longer than anyone else but he will put a t-shirt on and then start reading a book if I don't remind him.

Sounds just my teen did up until the last two years or so. I still have to remind her 3/4 times to brush her teeth and hair, and then just are we are leaving the house for school she remembers that she needs the loo.I wonder if there is ASC or ADHD lurking, but school ignore my requests for assessment, yet they asked her to take part in junior para Olympics.

There may be underlying problems or it may just be that he is a dreamy distracted 7 year old. We have the rule that DC can spend whatever time is left in the morning watching TV but only once they are totally ready for school- it works as the quicker they are ready the more TV time they get, but we check each thing has been done before it can be switched on.

We have one of these and they're a lifesaver with my ADD 8ish year old
www.google.co.uk/search?q=visual+timetable&rlz=1CDGOYI_enGB609GB609&hl=en-GB&prmd=isvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEl-TT4NbUAhUKYVAKHWzjCDwQ_AUICSgB&biw=320&bih=492#hl=en-GB&tbm=isch&q=visual+timetable+flaps&imgrc=hxQQ9QDcAL2WgM:
Even without a diagnosis, he's struggling for whatever reason - make life easier for yourselves and your ds as far as you can.
Strategies for ADD/ASD kids will def help with that x

You have just described my 9 yo twin sons!
Their teachers are querying add but I'm not convinced. I just think they're being 9!

PDA - pathological demand avoidance is another area to look at, OP.

My dd is the same. Every morning. She's 8 and it's pretty normal according to our friends with kids the same age

school ignore my requests for assessment, yet they asked her to take part in junior para Olympics.

Assessments cost money. And then if something is found, they have to find yet more money to meet the diagnosed need. Cynical, but certainly my own experience of schools. Fortunately the NHS operates differently - long delays, but they do refer if a need is detected. In our area, at least.