To argue i never signed

[Musereader]

I had a bit of a stressful time recently renewing my tenancy, i wanted to to renew the tenancy in my name only as my ex had left over 6 months prior, when i told the agency this they sent a section 21 notice for me to be out 20th of june and relisted my house on rightmove. They did say that i could apply for a new tenancy in my name only though i just needed to provide them with a new employment reference, so after getting my employer to send it out 3 times in the post to them and they claimed they didnt get it - i had it sent to me and took it to the office, they took a look at it and told me i was under the earnings threshold. I asked them to ask the landlord as i had been paying the rent myself for a full year on those wages - after two weeks they let me know on wed 14th that i could have the new agreement, i duly paid £132 and they sent the tenancy agreement via docusign when the payment cleared. When i got the agreement it said the rent was £5,500 pcm which was a typo as my rent is £550, i asked them to amend and they resent but after getting the agreement docusign did not let me sign it just said document completed after i accessed it. It baffled me but i just let it go. I've paid this months rent but they are still advertising it.

On friday my dad asks 'have you signed your agreement yet?' I said 'yes, why?' It transpires that my dad, who is a kitchen fitter has been asked to do a kitchen bathroom and redecoration in a rental property by a friend (they were in the same church until the friend went to live down south, they are renting down there and letting out thier house up here to pay the mortgage) as the house has just come empty. My dad discussed it with them and came up with a deal where i can rent it for £550 if my dad does the labour for free. This house is bigger and closer to my parents. I could go from a 2 bed terrace with tiny kitchen and no garden 1.5 miles from my parents to a 3 bed semi with garden less than a mile away (i am very close with my parents and they are supporting me a lot because i am a single mother on mat leave at the moment)

I told the agency i want to leave, but they are saying i would need to pay £380+vat and the rent until it is re let, aibu if i argue i never signed the tenancy due to the docusign glitch and because they are still advertising my current rental they are in breach anyway?

[FanaticalFox]

YABU

You went through all that hassle to stay where you are when your landlord could have just said no thanks bye once they realised you were under the earnings threshold but they gave you a chance. Now you're trying to get out of it by some sort of tiny technicality. YABVU. Take the new place but go through the correct process and fees to end your current tenancy properly.

[DrJZoidberg]

If it's not signed, it's not signed. Unless the glitch makes it signed, in which case you'll have a tough time proving you didn't sign.

[DelphiniumBlue]

So the facts are: they served sec 21 notice on you expiring 20 June.
You told them you wanted to stay, they have hm'd and ha'd, they've sent you a new tenancy agreement which you have not signed, and they are still advertising the flat, which suggests that they do not consider that they have let the property to you.
They are asking you for £380 ( for what) plus rent until they relet. So: are you sure they are still advertising the flat? Can you get someone to ring up and make an appointment to see it? that will reveal their intentions.
It's not entirely clear if there is a docusign glitch or not - possibly depends on previous use, whether you have ticked some box to agree to docusign etc. But the usual view would be that if you have not entered into a written agreement then the new lease would not be enforceable against you.
What is the situation regarding the original deposit - were you hoping to get that back?

[makeourfuture]

A binding contract does not require a signature in every instance; acceptance can be inferred from conduct.

I've paid this months rent

This could actually be the key bit. It says (plus continued occupancy) that you understand there is a binding agreement.

I don't know....

[Tissunnyupnorth]

I think makeourfuture is correct. You showed agreement to the contract by continuing to pay rent.

I would give notice as required by your contract.

[DrJZoidberg]

Paying the rent doesn't mean she agreed to the contract. She paid the rent because she is still in the property. Someone going through legal proceedings to be forced out of a property would be advised to keep paying the rent as long as they are there.

[makeourfuture]

Paying the rent doesn't mean she agreed to the contract. She paid the rent because she is still in the property. Someone going through legal proceedings to be forced out of a property would be advised to keep paying the rent as long as they are there.

Good point.

But isn't it a given that all parties know that the old terms have expired? And that perhaps the payment of the £132 is an acknowledgement of this? And given this, aren't we all on the same page that the rent is indeed payed under the new contract?

[Musereader]

I actually paid the rent before i was supposed to sign the agreement, because as pp said i am still there and i had been advised to pay it whether or not i had an agreement as tenancies automatically become rolling whether or not a new agreement is signed

I compared the signatures on the new tenancy with the last one, on the old one - i signed with a touchscreen and they signed by a tick box. In the standard sig box there is a computer generated stamp with the signature which is dated on the old one but nothing at all on the new one.

My dad would pay the £380+vat fee, we just cannot do the rent until re let

People came to a viewing on friday after i was supposed to have signed

Yes i would expect the deposit back, its in a tds and i have had a previous deposit back in full

[DrJZoidberg]

Good point about the £132! That would show the intention to sign the new contract.

If it wasn't for that, I would say that op could have argued she was paying the rent as if it had rolled onto a month by month now the fixed term is up.

But I think the £132 makes it clear, sorry OP!

[firawla]

If it's not signed, and they've messed you about (which they obviously are as they've done viewings?!) I wouldn't hesitate to leave and go with this new option. It's not signed so what can they do? If the landlord suffers by that it's the agents fault with all the messing around as you would have signed it already had they not queried everything and started re advertising it

[makeourfuture]

as tenancies automatically become rolling whether or not a new agreement is signed

Good point.

You got me....I am at the limits of my contract law knowledge.

[GinSwigmore]

I assume the £132 is the letting agent fee for resigning (which is bollocks as it does indeed go to a periodic tenancy but then they wouldn't get a cut). What on earth is the £380 +vat for?

[GinSwigmore]

I assume the £132 is the letting agent fee for resigning (which is bollocks as it does indeed go to a periodic tenancy but then they wouldn't get a cut). What on earth is the £380 +vat for?

[Musereader]

The 380+vat is early termination fee

[DrJZoidberg]

I thought the £132 was for getting the tenancy sorted for one tenant rather than the couple tenancy agreement that op used to have.

The £380 will be the "costs" they randomly decide on to cover finding a new tenant if the decide op has signed the contract.

[DrJZoidberg]

Crosspost

[MrsJoyOdell]

Wait they showed somebody around on Friday?! I'd be long gone, you'll be messed around regardless.

[GinSwigmore]

Sorry. Posted twice there. The £132 paid would indicate you agreed to the renewal, yes. But if the contract has no date stamped signature there may be some wriggle room, particularly if you heavily imply to the letting agent you can no longer afford the rent: the costs and time spent redoing a section 11/28/court might mean they release you. When did they readvertise it til and when did they confirm you could stay?

[JustMuddlingOn]

We were in this situation last year, paid the renewal fee for house, never got round to signing the co tract and sending it back and were never chased. Continued to pay rent as.normal. We were offered a council place a couple of months later and put our notice in. Landlord was peeved with letting agency for not chasing contract and letting her know it wasn't signed but let us leave and got us our renewal fee back as well!

[GinSwigmore]

Sorry. They confirmed you could stay last Wednesday. They sent contracts through. Originally you would have been moving out today/yesterday. Someone viewed on Friday. Are you in the property now? When does your rent go out/when are you paid up to now?

[GinSwigmore]

I think you are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place as you cannot really claim periodic tenancy if you were given a section 11 which you are are currently ignoring ie haven't moved out. If you have paid until the end of July, you could give a month's notice now and tell them to take you to court for the £380/rent but that they have no signed contract from you. That would be ballsy but would backfire if they contest an agreed contract was binding through having paid the renewal fee. Hopefully someone legal will be along in a while.
The LL I feel sorry for if they took a risk on you staying, the letting agent less sympathy, but it is business not personal.

[FanaticalFox]

Is it really worth all the fight and the agro and the hassle and the chance of a CCJ?? I so don't understand all this. If it was me I'd just pay it and move to the house i prefer which suits me better and thats that. So not worth it for 400 quid.

[DrJZoidberg]

£400 plus the monthly rent until someone moves in.

[Musereader]

If only it were just the £458, that would be fine, its the montly rent. I simply cannot pay 2 lots of rent