To not want my ds subjected to this at school

[requestingsunshine]

We don't swear at home, well I might have uttered the odd word, but generally speaking we don't swear. I am under no illusion that my children know swear words. However AIBU to expect that during a school lesson my ds (yr 6) shouldn't have to listen to the foul language coming out of a fellow pupil with the teacher doing nothing about it except telling the child 'not to swear'. Yesterday this child told the teacher and other pupils to fuck off 20 times in the space of one hour.

This is an everyday thing, but yesterday there were more fucks than usual apparently.

I don't understand why the school allow it to go on.

[VintagePerfumista]

heloise, I think you're on the other thread!

[Kleinzeit]

He isn't 'upset' by it. I am though. As I don't think its something that he should be subjected to in school and shouldn't be tolerated.

Well of course it's not normal behaviour and in an ideal world I'd agree that no-one else should be subjected to it, but since we're not in an ideal world you seem to be coming out more or less ahead. Your DS isn't upset by it and he isn't swearing 20 times an hour himself. He's probably even figured out it's not a cool thing to do.

I doubt that complaining again would make a difference. The school clearly know the child has a problem and there may not be much more they can do about it especially at this stage. I'm afraid you could reasonably expect the problem to get worse over the last few weeks of term, the end of year in general and the change of moving up to secondary soon do tend to knock behaviour back.

You could take comfort in the fact that the other children are not picking this behaviour up. Which suggests that in reality it might be being managed rather effectively, because at least some of the effects on others are being mitigated.

[LakieLady]

In an ideal world, even small primary schools would have the resources to deal effectively with challenging behaviour, but in the real world, they don't.

Until someone comes up with a solution that is likely to work and costs fuck all, I think ignoring it is as good as any other.

[GahBuggerit]

Theres a very good chance this kid has issues that the school are simply not prepared to discuss with you so reply with a stock "its being dealt with".

Why not speak to the school again, get a meeting, state your concerns ask them specifically if its something they cant discuss with you and if so then you have your answer.

Is the school an otherwise good school or are they lax in other areas? If good then its unlikely they will be allowing this to continue as just bad behaviour so another indicator that there is more to this.

[StephanieAteMyLunch]

I love it, let's remove them from the lesson.

And put them where?

Who do you think does the removal?

You need to be trained to physically remove a child from a classroom. Do you think they go willingly? Have you ever witnessed it because I see it every week.

Every child has a right to an education and inclusion legislation means that we cannot just kick them out of school.

I genuinely thought you would say your child is in reception.

As it was explained to me, do you remember that child in your secondary school who kicked off all the time, swore at teachers and was suspended for fighting or being disruptive? Well that child has now gone on to have a child of their own. What do you think their parenting skills are like? This is the parent of the child you are talking about.

[ParadiseCity]

Totally misread 'is your ds keeping count'

Every school has children with massive problems, I tell my DC to be understanding and count themselves lucky they don't have any troubles at the moment.

[JustAddingMyView]

It's so difficult. I have so much empathy for children who have difficult home lives, and I'm sure the school are taking measures to support this boy that haven't been made public- they can hardly make a class full of children (or their parents) privy to this sensitive information.
However, wider society won't make allowances for that kind of behaviour. If this boy is to have any chance of getting a job after school he needs to learn to be respectful of others, toe the line and knuckle down. Schools have an incredibly hard job but I don't necessarily think that allowing different standards of behaviour is in children's best interests. It comes from a supportive and caring place but I wonder whether it's really doing those children an injustice by not preparing them for life beyond school.

[MondayTuesdayWednesday]

The majority of posters on this thread have very low expectations of schools and teachers and are willing to accept a very low standard of education for their children if they think that the OP's chid is the problem for not liking this disruption.

No child should be allowed to do this over a prolonged period of time regardless of their background. Why should one child be more important than the other children in the class?

You should have done something about this over the past 2 years OP if the child is going to be leaving soon and not left it until just before he leaves primary school.

[Kleinzeit]

Justgoinground that's not on. You could go and complain mightily again. Swearing aloud in class is a shared burden but letting him pick on your DD to swear at isn't. The pleasure of his company should at least be rotated among several children.

[TheSeaTheSkyTheSeaTheSkyyyyyy]

Seems like mumsnet is having that little problem called perspective again.

Everything must be black and white! Our choices are:

a) let the child tell the teacher and other pupils to fuck off 20 times per hour
b) physically drag the child from the class, remove them from education for life and put them in the stocks at the summer fete.

There is no middle ground! There is no other approach! How could we rant and rave if there was an option in between the two extreme ends of the spectrum?!

[Atenco]

I don't swear and my now adult daughter never has either, however I don't really have any problem with swearing, except for the limited vocabulary of people who over-indulge in it. I can think of much more serious behavioural issues

[Sirzy]

I bet every school, teacher, youth worker etc in the world wishes their was an easy fix for children who for whatever reason display such behaviour. Sadly for most it just doesn't exist and it's a long drawn out process often with very little support available along the way.

Of course it's not acceptable behaviour but that doesn't mean it's easy to change behaviour, nor does it mean that "traditional" methods will be any use at all - beyond placating other parents that something is being "done" rather than actually supporting and helping the child.

[WhooooAmI24601]

I worked with a 6 year old last year who swore like nothing I'd ever heard in my life. He called me a "fucking fat arsed cunt" one day (I was most offended at 'fat'; my arse is lovely). I'm sure parents sat at home with their mouths gaping when their DCs relayed the day's offerings to them, but as much as it would be lovely to prevent things like that happening, the fact was we had so many huge, huge problems with him that his language was the tip of an awful iceberg. It may looked to the outside that we were allowing it to continue but we worked harder with that boy than we've ever woke with a child. Just because something's happening doesn't mean school are accepting the behaviour. Under the surface there will likely be so many agencies involved, CAFs happening and support being drafted in from wherever their budget affords.

[viques]

floggingmolly

My problem is that I can't get my head around people who think that schools have magic wands to wave over difficult children and make up for years of neglect ,poor parenting and the hours of negative social. experiences a child has outside school.

Schools do try, despite the chronic lack of funding to pay for support, learning mentors, training TAs and SENCOs , they repeatedly try interventions that sometimes work well, sometimes work a bit and sometimes don't work at all. But sometimes the disparity between behaviours and expectations in school and those the child experiences outside school are just to wide to bridge. And yes, in the outside world those behaviours are as unacceptable as they are in school. But to be honest telling a ten year old who comes from a family where adults are workless that he will never get a job if he is disruptive and sweary is a very long shot at developing social cohesion to coin a phrase.

So that's my problem.

[LagunaBubbles]

I imagine the sweary child is dealing with far worse life problems than your DS hearing a bit of bad language

Having a lesson constantly interrupted by bad language is detriment to the learning of all the pupils in the class. So many people on this thread seem to be falling over backwards to stick up for this boy, wont anyone think of his horrendous home life blah blah blah....and seem to minimise the effect on the rest of the class's education.

[MacarenaFerreiro]

It wouldn't overly concern me tbh. Maybe the child has Tourettes (I know most ppl with TS don't have the swearing tic but maybe they do?). I'm glad schools are inclusive.

Yes. Let's sit the 30 children down on the carpet, get in touch with our feelings and discuss how sweary fucker Troubled Child behaves the way he does. Pass around the listening stick, be kind to each other, sing a few verses of Kum Ba Yah for good measure.

We have a Sweary Fucker child in one of my children's classes. He's disruptive, won't do as he's told and regularly tells the teacher to "fuck off" or that "he's not fucking doing that fucking work you fucking cow". He's 9, doesn't have special needs, he's just a little sod who gets away with doing what he likes at home and lives with much older teenage siblings who do likewise. He's a delight.

The teacher has 28 other children in her class who are, by and large, good kids. Why should the other 28 have their education constantly disrupted by Sweary Fucker? Very few other employers would expect their wokers to put up with a torrent of abuse from someone at work. So as soon as he kicks off, a classroom assistant is summoned, he sits outside the school office until either he's calmed down and stopped swearing, or a parent is called to collect him. And quite right too.

[TheFirstMrsDV]

Your child is not upset?
What is the issue.
The issue with swearing is generally the shock factor. There isn't one in this case.

Your child will be fine. If you have good boundaries in place it won't make him swear. Talk to him. Explain that not everyone is as lucky as him.

It'll be fine.

[Seenoevil]

Maybe the child has SEN issues that you don't know about.

[SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed]

I agree the boy may have issues that do warrant him being given a bit of leeway, but the same may be true of other children in the class who have problems that could lead to them being distressed or frightened by this kind of behaviour.

[requestingsunshine]

I don't suggest hauling him out into the stocks or throwing him out of education . But there should be consequences. He isn't learning from the being ignored or told nicely to not swear method.

There is an end of year really fun trip for example. How about the threat of not allowing him to go if he does not reign it in? Or removing his break time privileges? It is not a small school, and children have been removed from the classroom before for being disruptive and sent to the head, but not this one as he refuses to leave and then kicks off on a massive scale (think throwing furniture around the room).

He has gloated before about not ever getting in trouble to my ds because 'his dad will smash their heads in if they touch me'. So I feel for the teachers I really do. He is going to have a huge shock at the secondary school as I have older dc there I know they do not put up with this for a second.

[GahBuggerit]

Doesn't matter Seenoevil, there should be no understanding whatsoever, apparently.

[LilQueenie]

subjected to what exactly? If he knows it is wrong and repeats it then deal with him.

[Sirzy]

And you don't think there is a reason for the school taking a different approach here? Read your last paragraph - says a lot about what the child and school are dealing with doesn't it. Perhaps the swearing is the least of their issues.

[TheSeaTheSkyTheSeaTheSkyyyyyy]

But there should be consequences. He isn't learning from the being ignored or told nicely to not swear method

I don't believe for a second that that is the only thing the school are doing, sorry. If you really believe that, I would suggest going in and talking to them about it. That's what I would do.

[JacquesHammer]

Yes. Let's sit the 30 children down on the carpet, get in touch with our feelings and discuss how sweary fucker Troubled Child behaves the way he does. Pass around the listening stick, be kind to each other, sing a few verses of Kum Ba Yah for good measure

Pretty much what happens at DD's school. An approach I am delighted with.