To not want my ds subjected to this at school

[requestingsunshine]

We don't swear at home, well I might have uttered the odd word, but generally speaking we don't swear. I am under no illusion that my children know swear words. However AIBU to expect that during a school lesson my ds (yr 6) shouldn't have to listen to the foul language coming out of a fellow pupil with the teacher doing nothing about it except telling the child 'not to swear'. Yesterday this child told the teacher and other pupils to fuck off 20 times in the space of one hour.

This is an everyday thing, but yesterday there were more fucks than usual apparently.

I don't understand why the school allow it to go on.

[Lottie991]

Cannot believe the amount of posters that are minimising this sort of behaviour.

[FinallyThroughTheRoof]

Who is minimising it?

[Lottie991]

Plenty of posters read the thread, And some really taunting the op.

[Lottie991]

Yes Dixie

[elevenclips]

Finallythroughtheroof
My child isn't NT. He has ASD.
It was a measure of how serious the child's issues were. And by my reckoning they are pretty serious.

[dotdotdotmustdash]

I'm a Secondary TA in a tough school of 1300 pupils. Due to several long term absences, there were 3 of us in the school today. We have two children who require 1-1 support so that left just one of use to support the 20 or so children across the lower year groups who have severe behavioural issues and will swear and disrupt most classes they're in. I'm guessing there was a lot of swearing going on without us there to distract them or supervise them out of class.

[dotdotdotmustdash]

*one of us

[FinallyThroughTheRoof]

Eleven so you think that all parents of kids with aSD could atop them swearing at teacher then? Because you can? Im sure you know all kids are different.

[FinallyThroughTheRoof]

If i misread you i am sorry. But it didnt read like that.

[requestingsunshine]

Gahbuggerit. We've been here 2 years just over, so yes that's a normal amount of time to have made some good friends however I'd still consider us newbies to the area.

[GahBuggerit]

Soz, guess I got confused with you saying your ds started recently. Never heard of 2 years being recent.

[isadoradancing123]

How does anyone know he is troubled . He could be just a badly behaved brat in a useless school.,

[FinallyThroughTheRoof]

Reported thst disablist post, not worth addressing.

[MaisyPops]

If any child swore at me in my classroom they'd be out of class.
If they swore but not at anyone then they've have a warning and if they did it again they'd be out of class.

This would be the case regardless of SEND need status / lack of SEND needs.However, what goes on behind the scenes may differ depending on information that the students would not see or find out.

E.g. I'm not going to push for an exclusion for a child who swore at me if they're a massive child protection case and it's an achievement to have them in school and they are safer at school. I'd be happy with internal isolation. Whereas a child without that situation I would absolutely push exclusion.
Bottom line is that I'd not be happy if somebody said I'm not doing anything because they don't have all the facts, no nor should they.

[elevenclips]

Finallythroughtheroof, in fact the opposite. I don't think the parents could stop him swearing at the teacher. I don't think I said anything like that.

The only point I am making to the OP is that this child has pretty serious problems, diagnosed or not diagnosed, physiological or environmental. So for her perhaps just to count the days until her ds leaves Y6.

[IonaMumsnet]

Evening folks. Just wanted to pop by with a reminder that a bit of peace, love and understanding goes a long way. There are a few comments on this thread that seem a bit 'not in the spirit of Mumsnet' and we don't want to have to take the thread down when there's an interesting discussion being had. While we all agree not every kid is an angel, this is still a little boy we're talking about here.

[FinallyThroughTheRoof]

Ok fair dos eleven

[JustAddingMyView]

All children deserve a good standard of education. I believe passionately that educating young people is the most important tool we have for making the world a better place. Of course, part of that is understanding that not everybody is NT, not everyone has an easy home life, and either or both of those things could cause some children to misbehave. We can make the world a fairer place by making appropriate allowances for those differences so that those children have the best chance they can of achieving their potential.

However, I don't think it's "pearl clutching" to be concerned about the impact of disruptive behaviour on other children. Their education matters just as much. If there is a class of 30 children and one or more are persistently disruptive then some of those disrupted children might be naturally bright/studious and/or have parents who have the time, ability and inclination to tutor them at home to help them reach their potential. Some parents might pay for extra tuition or send their child to private school instead. Sadly, there may well be other children in that class who have difficulties at home but who fall under the radar because their behaviour is better.

But I would imagine that the majority of children, depending on the area, have parents who don't have spare money for tutors, can't afford private education, and don't have the time, ability or inclination (or a combination of these) to help their children catch up on things they should be learning at school. My own, very loving and nice parents, fit into that category. They both worked, had 3 children and weren't particularly academic. The last thing they wanted to do after working, cooking and clearing up was to sit three different aged kids down, work out what they were each missing out on in 6/7 hours of potentially disrupted classes that day and then try and teach it to them. How could they possibly manage that? How much harder would that be for lone parents, parents for whom English is a second language, parents who are working opposite shifts to meet ends meet...?

So no, I don't think the OP is unreasonable to be concerned by the level of disruption in her child's class and nor do I think it's a case of demonising children who don't behave; as a parent and citizen I just care equally about all the children who aren't able to receive the education they deserve, and about how that could further increase the social divide between those who can access private or tutored education to get the top grades and those who can't.

[JustAddingMyView]

Just to add to that, I'm not saying I have a solution! But that mocking or chastising the OP for being concerned seems a bit odd. It's perfectly possible to really care about the disruptive child and still care about how that impacts the others.

[missyB1]

justadding well said you hit the nail on the head!

[JennyBlueWren]

A lot of people seem to think a child can just be removed from the classroom. In my last school we had children who would behave like this. They have a right to an education and we couldn't exclude them just because they swore at us throughout a lesson (as I had explained to me on a number of occasions). There wouldn't always be someone to remove the child and they would soon enough be put back in. The council can choose to exclude a child but as they then have to put them somewhere else that is a very last resort. As a teacher it can be very hard to ignore it but you have to remember the other (30 odd?) children who need their education.

[MaisyPops]

jenny
We have department removal systems and a whole school one.
Child is instructed to leave to the designated room. If they refuse, we call a more senior member of staff. If they continue, the more senior teacher stays with the child and we move the whole class elsewhere so learning can continue.


The child has a right to an education. They do not have the right to dictate the terms of everyone else's.

[Kleinzeit]

his aunt is a good friend. He has quite a rough family environment - no bedtime, parents swear in everyday speak , older brother in prison. Father is currently banned from the school for shouting at teachers. So he has issues. Nothing medically diagnosed though.

If his parents are flaky then the chances of SN being diagnosed drop. For one thing, the finger will initially point at the most obvious explanation - family circumstance and parenting - even if there's internal stuff going on as well. And for another, parents have to support getting diagnostic assessments for neurological conditions - that's to say the least, often it's a matter of everyone having to push very hard for them - or they simply wont happen.

It's quite possible the school are desperate to get him assessed and the parents are being passive or obstructive. If you could convince his aunt to do whatever she can to support getting him assessed (and also for him to get whatever therapies might follow, again if the parents aren't proactive the child may lose out badly) then you'd be doing everyone a favour.