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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It's too hot for high drama, but nonetheless we persist (Trump cont.)

963 replies

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 19/06/2017 23:43

I'm all out of inspiration here. The grind is getting us all down, interspersed with terrorist attacks, but we shall overcome. In the meantime, there's gin and camaraderie.

Previous thread here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2952694

OP posts:
Thread gallery
30
ElenaGreco123 · 28/06/2017 08:56

Thank you for the wonderful Walt Whitman and Ozymandias quotes a few pages back Flowers Just catching up.

I need to read the episode blog of the Handmaid's Tale before watching and still end up in rage and floods of tears by the end of each episode.

ElenaGreco123 · 28/06/2017 09:02

Time magazine asks Trump to remove fake covers from display at golf clubs

Framed Time cover featuring president and the headline ‘The Apprentice is a television smash!’ has reportedly been seen hanging at five of Trump’s clubs

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/28/time-magazinetrump-fake-covers-golf-clubs

[sigh]

Natsku · 28/06/2017 09:19

I've just discovered that - on the All4 app at least - you can now only get Episode 2 et seq of The Handmaid's Tale'. (And Episode 2 is only available for 4/5 more days or something.) View now if you want to keep up with it and you don't have the book.

Bugger I better watch it then. Don't like watching it on the channel 4 catch up thing because of all the bloody adverts though.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 28/06/2017 10:04

www.nytimes.com/2017/06/27/opinion/the-gop-rejects-conservatism.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

The G.O.P. Rejects Conservatism

An excerpt:

First, conservative policy intellectuals tend to have accepted the fact that American society is coming apart and that measures need to be taken to assist the working class. Republican politicians show no awareness of this fact. Second, conservative writers and intellectuals have a vision for how they want American society to be in the 21st century. Republican politicians have a vision of how they want American government to be in the 21st century.

Republican politicians believe that government should tax people less. The Senate bill would eliminate the 3.8 percent tax on investment income for those making over $250,000. Republican politicians believe that open-ended entitlements should be cut. The Senate health care plan would throw 15 million people off Medicaid, according to the Congressional Budget Office. (This is the program that covers nearly 40 percent of America’s children.)

Is there a vision of society underlying those choices? Not really. Most political parties define their vision of the role of government around their vision of the sort of country they would like to create. The current Republican Party has iron, dogmatic rules about the role of government, but no vision about America.

Because Republicans have no governing vision, they can’t really replace the Obama vision with some alternative. They just accept the basic structure of Obamacare and cut it back some.

Because Republicans have no governing vision, they can’t argue for their plans. Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price came to the Aspen Ideas Festival to make the case for the G.O.P. approach. It’s not that he had bad arguments; he had no arguments, no vision for the sort of health care system these bills would usher in. He filled his time by rising to a level of vapid generality that was utterly detached from the choices in the actual legislation.

Because Republicans have no national vision, they seem largely uninterested in the actual effects their legislation would have on the country at large. This Senate bill would be completely unworkable because anybody with half a brain would get insurance only when they got sick.

Worse, this bill takes all of the devastating trends afflicting the middle and working classes — all the instability, all the struggle and pain — and it makes them worse. As the C.B.O. indicated, the Senate plan would throw 22 million people off the insurance rolls. It would send them to private insurance plans that they could not afford to buy. Under the Senate bill, deductibles for poor families would be more than half of their annual income. The plans are so incompetently and cruelly designed that as the C.B.O. put it, “few low-income people would purchase any plan.”

This is not a conservative vision of American society. It’s a vision rendered cruel by its obliviousness. I have been trying to think about the underlying mentality that now governs the Republican political class. The best I can do is the atomistic mentality described by Alexis de Tocqueville long ago:

“They owe nothing to any man, they expect nothing from any man; they acquire the habit of always considering themselves as standing alone, and they are apt to imagine that their whole destiny is in their own hands. Thus not only does democracy make every man forget his ancestors, but it hides his descendants and separates his contemporaries from him; it throws him back forever upon himself alone and threatens in the end to confine him entirely within the solitude of his own heart.”

Someone on twitter also commented that they wondered what vision of society Theresa May has.

Lweji · 28/06/2017 10:09

The Kochs are traitors to their name.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 28/06/2017 10:10

I ventured on Jay Sekulow's twitter page:

Jay Sekulow‏Verified account @JaySekulow 19h19 hours ago
More
Here is what is so absurd: 1/6

So we now know that the Obama Administration was fully aware of the intelligence regarding Russia hacking into the US election; 2/6

They decided to not take significant action on this because they were convinced that HRC would win;

Trump wins, HRC loses. 3/6

So now we end up with a Special Counsel investigating Russia & collusion. Yet, all the intel & info was already known by previous Admin; 4/6

So what we should have is an investigation as to why the previous Admin. failed to act, not a Special Counsel on facts already known. 5/6

The President deserves an apology. The American people deserve one as well. 6/6

Lweji · 28/06/2017 10:19

I've said it earlier. The main problem is why Trump did nothing when he got to power. He was the one supposed to deal with Russia for 4 years. Not Obama.
And that's why there's an investigation that they don't like.
Trump should have welcomed an investigation. Why didn't he?

ElenaGreco123 · 28/06/2017 10:34

Because he is dim?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 28/06/2017 11:30

Neatly disarming Sekulow's arguments in 4 words Grin

Yes lweji, Trump's team are very good at asking why Obama did nothing whilst blithely ignoring the fact that Trump, who is currently in power, is still doing nothing.

Also, the special counsel was first brought in because Trump fired Comey and said he was going to do it to reduce the heat on "the trump russia thing". So Mueller began his investigation with obstruction of justice that Trump very publicly performed and has widened the net to Russian connections, in part because that was the investigation that Comey was directing before he was fired and also I think because it has become clear that lots of Team Trump have lied under oath about their meetings with Russians (although so much has happened since I can't remember if this was corroborated).

As to why Comey was investigating Trump and not Obama in the first place:
-Obama knew there was interference but did not want to be seen to politicise the issue and invalidate the legitimacy of the elections. A grave error, IMO, but not the same as actively colluding. He planted the cyber bombs as future means of retaliating but this has not been used.
-Trump openly called for hacking into emails etc. Plus he carried on employing Flynn even after he was informed by numerous agencies and departments that Flynn was compromised and could be manipulated by the Russians, and should not be in a position of having access to matters of National Security. Trump's asking Comey to drop the investigation into Flynn and then firing Comey when he failed to do so suggests that there might be something there that Trump does not want revealed., but regardless of that, is possible obstruction of justice. The investigation is also looking into financial paper trails to see if there are any connections with Trump/Russia.

This is very different to "Obama knew about Russian interference in the elections and nobody cared and now Trump's in power, everyone is investigating him for something he had no role in", which is how Sekulow is presenting it and also much harder to pithily tweet about!

Orlantina · 28/06/2017 11:52

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 3m3 minutes ago
More
The failing @nytimes writes false story after false story about me. They don't even call to verify the facts of a story. A Fake News Joke!

He gets boring, doesn't he....

CaveMum · 28/06/2017 11:56

Just read about the bizzare incident with the Irish reporter in the Oval Office. "Sleazy" doesn't begin to cover it

Lweji · 28/06/2017 12:00

Obama knew there was interference but did not want to be seen to politicise the issue and invalidate the legitimacy of the elections. A grave error, IMO

It's one of those things where hindsight really helps. Grin

Orlantina · 28/06/2017 12:01

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 1m1 minute ago
More
Some of the Fake News Media likes to say that I am not totally engaged in healthcare. Wrong, I know the subject well & want victory for U.S.

Does he think it's easy?

Lweji · 28/06/2017 12:20

That Trump tweet about healthcare.

It's too hot for high drama, but nonetheless we persist (Trump cont.)
ElenaGreco123 · 28/06/2017 12:21

Trump said on tv that he never realised how complicated healthcare is [facepalm]

Lweji · 28/06/2017 12:28

Yes. But he's totes engaged, you know?

Lweji · 28/06/2017 12:29

He also said that the bill that came out of Congress was great. Then mean.

If he worked at CNN, he'd have been fired by now. Grin

TheClaws · 28/06/2017 12:39

If the FAKE MEDIA is FAKE, and they are saying Trump is not totally engaged in healthcare, does that mean he actually is? But then, if he tweets about it, saying he is fully engaged and knows the subject well, does that mean he doesn't?

This is why Trump should stop tweeting!

cozietoesie · 28/06/2017 12:49

Go back to first principles, Claws.

You know he's not fully engaged with healthcare and you know he doesn't know the subject well.

Smile
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 28/06/2017 12:59

This is what he's referring to, I think

It's too hot for high drama, but nonetheless we persist (Trump cont.)
Lweji · 28/06/2017 13:00

The senator is not wrong, though.

ElenaGreco123 · 28/06/2017 13:16

But surely Trump would soak some knowledge about healthcare just by sitting in that meeting. How can he seem more confused by the day?!

cozietoesie · 28/06/2017 13:22

He absorbs very little, it seems.

Has he mentioned the NASDAQ's current issues by the way?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 28/06/2017 13:42

Not that I've seen.

I read somewhere that the block for the lackofhealth bill was two moderate Reps who wanted it softened and 4 Reps that wanted it to be even more punishing, and that it was likely that McConnell would therefore amend the bill to be even more harsh. I can't find the article now but does anyone have any links about it?

cozietoesie · 28/06/2017 14:09

I'm sorry, Pain. There are just so many pieces on the draft bill.