Something has happened at Finsbury Park, London

[nakedscientist]

It seems to be another van driving into people. I live near there and have been hearing a lot of sirens. How scary and utterly depressing!

It's awful, but I don't think I'm really feeling shock at these things anymore. It's starting to seem inevitable. I guess it's also inevitable that a large scale white supremacist attack happened sooner or later. Hate feeding hate. All of them evil bastards

Yes, this is how I feel. Not in my name is what keeps running through my head.

some people are secretly gleeful

really Hairy?

Fuck off.

People are upset and horrified. This is a horrible time for the world.

So take your ridiculous comments and shove them up your arse.

The vast majority of Muslims and of non-Muslims in the UK don't do hate or violence at all; they just want to get on with life and live in peace.

There are so vastly many more of us than of the haters

Unfortunately rain there are. Some awful comments on the FB Sky News page.

I'm ashamed. I keep commenting to fight against such idiocy and support those who comments are made against them but there are many comments. I had a comment back from a gentleman saying he thought I was only one of a few. That's what he believes

I'm hoping there is a silent majority out there. I can't be silent, they're annoying the hell out of me. Not in my name, thanks

If I was Isis I think this is exactly what I'd be doing to spread hatred and up recruitment.

Send any white extremists who had been radicalised to attack muslims and claim it was because all white people hated them.

Of course it's entirely likely that some thick horrible racist edl twat had done their work for them entirely if his own steam because he hates muslims.

Is that what the cobra meeting was about? Would they really have a cobra meeting for one, acting alone, racist murdering bastard?

Just awful.
Only people 'enjoying this' are the hateful cowards. Luckily most of us aren't and want peace and safety for all.

"In my head the difference is that it's more likely this fucking idiot doesn't have a wider network of other fucking idiots who helped plan this. I don't know that for sure but I think it's more likely. In which case that would make him a 'lone wolf' "

Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised. Breivik had an internet support net, and from what I have heard there are serious concerns re American right-wing extremists using the internet and stockpiling weapons. I thought that thread about the relative non-danger of the KKK last week rather naïve. We have absolutely no means of knowing what they might be planning, or what other extremists in any part of the world might be inciting, in this country or any other.

All we can do is to be the best and most decent people we can. Like that brave imam who stepped in and prevented further violence at this scene.

"False flag" attacks only have a point if the authorities don't find the culprits.

Once they do, there is so much known about each of us, so much of our lives unknowingly on CCTV, that it's pretty easy to find if someone has ever been a Muslim

In this kind of attack , by a vehicle, the terrorist had little chance of escape even in the short term

If there ever are false flag attacks by any "side", they'd be via bombs, gas etc which can be put on timers

I don't mean to belittle this at all but, is he really a terrorist?

I understood a terririst to be a person who belongs to a large and identified group, who murders as many people as possible, to spread fear and make a government cave to their demands/ to further an ideology.

If this was just one man, not associated with anyone else and who's only cause was he hated muslims, doesn't that mean he is a racist murdering bastard but not a terrorist?

Adrifty86: I've been thinking about this a lot of late. I think it's a really grey area. If you look at the Westminster Bridge attacker, then he seems to have attacked alone, though inspired, for want of a better word, by extremist stuff posted online. On the other hand, his aim was undoubtedly to spread terror, so in that sense it was a terrorist attack.

The same with the nail bomber 18 years ago - he wanted to spread terror, but he attacked entirely alone. So it's really a question of where you draw the line. The Manchester bomb was clearly a terrorist attack, committed by people who had been to terrorist training camps and were clearly linked to Isis. Jo Cox's murder, though committed by an extremist, wasn't, in my view, a terrorist attack. The Westminster Bridge and this attack seem to fall somewhere in between (with the caveat that we don't really know very much at all about this latest attack yet).

Cannot believe the disgusting double standards exposed on radio 4 today.

After the westminster bridge atrocity it was all screaming about attacks on our way of life and our democracy. This morning the FIRST thing I heard on switching on was 'oh well isn't it important we don't blow these lone wolf attacks out of proportion because it will just encourage others'

I mean I agree with the sentiment, but FFS it applied to westminster bridge too! Instead we got 2 weeks of wall to wall coverage.

I can't help noticing this person hasn't been described as a Christian extremist, or as an atheist extremist either.

what a surprise that we can't own an extremist, while we expect normal muslims to suck up all the extremists we can find.

I think someone attempting to kill people on the street while yelling that they want to kill everyone of that religion is definitely attempting to cause terror.

That's what I meant. Is anyone who causes terror a terrorist now?

I always thought there had to be a greater aim, a purpose (batshit as it may seem to rational people), identifying or being radicalised by a known terrorist group.

I agree it's definitely a grey area.

I don't think it matters if it is called terrorist or not. It is absolutely appalling as is this new trend for all kinds of nutters and ISIS people and others to take a van and mow into people on the sides of streets.

I don't feel worse about deaths when they are terrorism or car accidents or whatever. They are all deaths and all horrible.

The internet makes this an increasingly grey area: how on earth are you going to know if somebody is acting from instructions sent out by a recognised group or not?

These days, instructions don't have to arrive at your home address in a stamped addressed envelope from somebody who knows you by name. Isis and Daesh are increasingly acting by sending out instructions randomly to anyone who might be listening and there is no reason to assume that right-wing extremist groups are not acting in exactly the same manner; in fact, there is a lot to suggest that they are.

What we need to avoid is a situation where we judge certain actions/behaviour patterns to be terrorist/a matter of national security if they emanate from one side and not if they emanate from the other. That is playing into the hands of all extremist organisations.

Cannot believe the disgusting double standards exposed on radio 4 today

Well, it's a Christian radio station isn't it?!

Why is it a Christian radio station? Not a helpful comment. Or an accurate one.

Morphene: "I can't help noticing this person hasn't been described as a Christian extremist, or as an atheist extremist either."

Perhaps because they don't know whether he's a Christian or an atheist? Do you think it would be helpful to describe him as a Christian extremist if he turned out not to be a Christian?

In any case (with usual caveats about still waiting for information to emerge), I would guess the defining feature of the guy's ideology is extreme right-wing white supremacy, not religion.

Agree that it is too early to pronounce on this man's religion. But if it does turn out that his particular brand of extremism is linked to some Christian group then I would hope the media say so loud and clear. And I say that as a Christian.

But it wouldn't entirely surprise me if this guy in Finsbury Park turns out to have the following features: a history of low-paid work/being out of work; a record of domestic violence; petty crime; drug abuse. It's become really noticeable that the men who commit Islamic attacks and those who commit right-wing racist attacks have extremely similar profiles.

R4 programming includes daily Christian worship. I agree with Morphene

Islamophobic or Far Right would probably turn out be better words, he may well have been a Christian, nominally anyway, but it is unlikely he is under the sway of a violent Christian sect.
I know Muslims are often blamed when islamofascists carry out their attacks, that's wrong obviously, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Words matter and I hope the media stays calm and measured. And perhaps shiw a bit more outrage

Things have come to a pretty pass when I am hoping the media makes more of a fuss about stuff. World is upside down

Not a Christian radio station.
The Act of Worship is a hangover from years ago and is probably down to the fact our Head Of State is also Head of the Church of England . I'm not CofE btw. You have to have a long wave receiver to get the Act of Worship so it is hardly the bloody Angelus on Irish TV.
Thought For the Day on Radio 4 has all religions and also the non-religious represented.
You are being very unhelpful if you insist on calling Radio 4 a Christian station. Go to the USA, you will hear what a Christian radio station actually sounds like.

I stand by my opinion, thanks. :)