How often is it normal/fair to have evenings out once you have children?

[Greenred]

We have a baby and I am breastfeeding, I've not had an evening out since he was born. This is likely how it's going to be for some time.

My partner often goes for drinks after work, doesn't usually come home late, let's say between 5:30 and 7 (he finishes work around 3-4ish sometimes earlier) but usually comes home having had enough to drink that he's heavy handed/clumsy/forgetful/annoying to talk to/falls asleep in front of the tv. He has been known to come back later and drunker, but generally it's the above.

As well as this, he doesn't hesitate to attend evening things- watch football matches at the pub with mates, drinks for so and sos birthday etc etc at weekends.

I've spoken to him many times about feeling lonely, not feeling very supported, being fed up of having only having a tipsy or drunk partner to speak to most evenings- but it always ends in arguing.

His point of view is that- he rarely comes home late during the week (my point of view is that it doesn't really matter if he's home by 6, he's still drunk and annoying/unhelpful and that makes me feel just as on my own as I would if he wasn't in the house because we're on completely different levels, also if he came home when he actually finished work he'd get to spend time with his child before they go to bed and allow me to get on with a few things or even have a bloody bath or some of my own me time! By the time baby's asleep and dinner's done I don't have it in me to do these things as I'm exhausted- baby still waking lots during the night so I'm always sleep deprived), and it's only fair that he gets to go to random social events and he usually gets home around 11 or 12pm so it's not that late (but he's still not here and it's still yet another evening of me being on my own looking after our baby who I have looked after pretty much single handed for the last 6 or so months).

WIBU to ask how often your partners/husbands/wives go out and enjoy themselves and what you think is a fair arrangement to come to? Fwiw, I don't believe he should never be able to do anything just because I'm not able to, but I really think there should be some sort of balance (as well as this regular drunkness being knocked on the head).

That sounds really tough. I'm bf 9mo DS and we have a 3yo DD. Both sleep poorly and I can't go out at night.

DH needs to be out of the house for work/commuting 8am-6pm M-F therefore my working hours as a SAHP are 8am-6pm M-F. Everything else is split. Our mutually agreed "rules" are:

• home by 6pm M-Th to help with dinner, bath and bed and to spend time with the DC. He goes to the gym AFTER the DC are in bed.

• his work go out to the pub most Fridays. He can come home as late as he wants as long as he can get up to take DD to her swimming lesson on a Sat morning.

• additional trips and special nights out are fine but get them in the diary asap. If he is out all day Sat for example, we'll keep the Sun free to spend as a family.

We agreed this together. They are our children and we are raising them together as a team.

DH and I discussed what type of parents we want to be. DH likes a drink and, to be fair, so do I. We have one night out a week on our own so I have Mondays and he has Thursdays. Weekends are different and dependent on what we are doing, and I any other nights out come up, we discuss and agree them. I personally don't think your DH is an alcoholic. More that he's used to drinking a lot and has carried on the lifestyle he had before. Obviously that needs to change now.

Have a look at the website for Alcoholics Anonymous and there are specific questions on there to diagnose it. Wanting to go out, having the money to go out, enjoying it and still having a perfectly normal life isn't on the list. It's more when people want to stop and can't, or drink in the mornings. There are at least 50 shades of grey in between.

I hope you find a solution and that he gets to be the kind of Dad he wants to be. I will probably get flamed for this but I'm trying to help as you've said you want advice on what other people do - don't forget there are millions of people out there who all live in different ways, you just need to find a way that works for your family.

What are you planning to do OP? Are you going to speak to your partner?

I hope you get the support you deserve, you're both parents after all xx

Not sure what's normal but my DH goes out after work maybe once every six weeks.

Childish I actually agree with you, just had this revelation upthread after months of thinking he must be a functioning alcoholic because why on earth would he carry on like this otherwise when I've essentially told him I'll leave him if he doesn't stop... but I think it's actually just an ingrained lifestyle, he just can't work out how to do life without going to the pub all the time because it's his 'normal'. He doesn't really have any other hobbies apart from watching sports on tv but again that's very linked to pubs and drinking. He needs to find other avenues of enjoyment.

I'm sure he does want to be a good dad and in fact he probably thinks he is one, but there is more to being a good parent than loving your child.

I had my DS with an alcoholic. I didn't have a clue until I was heavily pregnant and found him p!ssed up in a freezing cold bath fully clothed. That was when it hit me.

He used to come home late, never take interest in DS unless it suited him. The nursery was decorated by me and all clothes etc bought and prepared as he just had no interest. All he could think of was getting his next drink, disappearing and switching his phone off.

Long story short we split when DS was 3 as he had serious health issues. The nurses had to regularly turn him away from hospital due to his state when visiting us.

My son adored him and I really struggled with letting them have a relationship due to the alcohol. He held down a responsible job. My son was secretive with me and he really turned him against anything and everything to do with me but I was patient and loved my son no matter what. I spent 5yrs in hospital with him on chemotherapy and he is my world.

My son is now 15 and last year broke down and confessed his dad was often drinking 2ltrs of vodka and passing out. His dad lived with his elderly mum so there was another adult there at the weekend. He said he could not cope anymore. The control was awful with him having to ring his dad upto 20 times a day so he knew his every move. He turned DS into a nervous wreck who burst into tears at the slightest thing.

Its taken nearly a year and my son speaking to a counsellor but he is the happiest I have ever seen him. He sees his dad on his terms and will not be controlled anymore. It has left my son with lifelong issues. I found out last week that he told our son that he took an overdose due to the stress of our son being poorly and it caused liver damage rather than admit he has alcohol issues. What d!ck says that to his son????

My son is still telling me things which devastate me more and more. His elderly mother died last year and he apparently treated her awfully to the point of abuse and tried to get my lovely caring son to go along with it. This was the last straw and why he confided in me as he loved his gran.

My son knew every off license in the area and still will not walk down the alcohol aisle in the supermarket as it reminds him of his dad.

I will never forgive myself for allowing them a father/son relationship which has caused so much heartache. When I left nobody believed he was an alcoholic, I asked for help from his mum and brother, even my own mother blamed me and said it was in my head. He did hide it well though.

I see him now and he has aged considerably, shakes so much and is a mess. My son tried to call him for Fathers Day today to arrange to drop off a card but he has switched off his phone.

Please, if you have suspicions he is an alcoholic do get help for all of you as it will affect you and your children more than you realise for the rest of your life.

Alcohol turns them into secretive and manipulative monsters. I also found out through my son that my ex had 5 secret children who he was still in a relationship with their mother when I was pregnant with my DS. When we moved home he did not give them a forwarding address or phone number. I only found out around 6 months ago. He introduced my son to his brothers and sisters and told him to keep quiet!

Everything I thought I knew about him was one big lie and alcohol is at the centre of it all.

Good Luck

My husband and I go out separately maybe once or twice a year. Babysitters are expensive, kids still wake at night and get into our bed. But we do stuff as a family, including evenings camping and visiting friends. It's the going out after work that has really fallen by the wayside for now.

Whether you consider he's an alcoholic or not is really semantics. He is prioritising alcohol over you and your child. I think that means he has a big problem with alcohol.

What is normal is that parents share the responsibility for raising their child. They have equal (or nearly equal) amounts of down time.

This: "He's known how I feel for a long time and has had 6 months plus the entire pregnancy to turn things around (carried on going out every day after work during my pregnancy leaving me to do everything around the house, carry heavy bags of shopping etc all while working full time until term)." Is not normal.

I think you've accepted shitty behaviour for such a long time that your expectations are pitifully low :(

Jiggly, I haven't just rolled over and accepted it, I've been subjected to it and have approached him about it firmly each time. I've never kept quiet about it, but it's not as simple as just leaving him the moment he didn't comply, we're in a relationship, I love him and we have a child together, we're living together, I have nowhere else to go and upping and leaving is not something I can do at the snap of a finger. I've given him chances as I've been desperate for him to do the right thing. It's so easy when you're not in the situation to think 'I'd never get into a relationship with someone like that' or 'I wouldn't put up with that for a second, I'd LBT' but it wasn't always like this, our relationship was equal when we met, we got on brilliantly and rarely argued but the dynamic changed when the baby came into it, and there are emotions and ties in a relationship, even when someone is not being great.

I did feel a while back that I was lowering my standards to accommodate his not changing but quickly stopped myself. I've lost a lot of confidence but I'd rather be alone and sad than feel like a doormat for the rest of my life.

No it's not normal and I'm very much aware of that.

Thank you for all messages, even those I've not replied to, I'm reading them all and it's all food for thought.

maggie, your son sounds like a very brave young man and you both sound like you've been through an awful lot. I hope life is improving for you both now.

I'm on my own so once every couple of months.

I don't think it's easy for a moment. But I can promise you that he won't change until you leave because, right now as far as he's concerned, he's not doing anything wrong.

I'm obviously making you feel shit so I'll butt out now.

I wish you the best of luck - you'll get brilliant support on Relationships should you choose to make a better life for you and your baby.

Just saying, you don't need to leave. Just try and have an honest chat with DH and decide what you want life to look like.

Most people don't spend their whole lives doing what's 'right' or looking after everyone else. They do what they want to do. I think you'll be just fine. He just needs to alter his behaviour.

he just needs to alter his behaviour.
No kidding... , apparently he is NOT LISTENING, & green red, you sound very intelligent, & I think you are doing the right thing getting informed to know how you will tackle this.
Honestly, if he says, he doesn't know what to do with a baby, you reply, "neither did I".... it's something you learn on the way !
He can either make an effort, of go & live with his mates...
Life can only get better.

Childish, I have had many honest chats with him. He gets defensive, we argue, he eventually comes 'round and agrees with me that he should reduce his pub going, but then carries on exactly as before. It just goes in circles which is why I've had to threaten to leave. I've given him the choice, he knows what's at stake if he wants to carry on. It's frustrating because it shouldn't have to come to this.

Well, I spend my life trying to do what's right, I look after people I love and I don't do what ever I want without thinking of how it might impact people. I don't think it's that rare to be this way. And I certainly expect this in return from a partner.

Maybe agree on how much he can spend, actually agree a sensible amount. Put it in an envelope and that's all the 'fun' he can have. When it's gone, it's gone.

You need to find a way forward. Together.

And my view is that a lot of men don't do what they are simply meant to, they do what feels good. Most adults do. Then they backtrack and reason why they did it.

Do his friends have a view? Is anyone in his peer group telling him he's out of order?

It's hard to say because alcohol seems so involved here and it really does change the dynamic of the evening if one has had a few and the other hasn't but DH and I both have active social lives and train at various sports so each of us will be out of the house a couple of nights a week but it's equal and we cover for each other iyswim and our children are also older. Your situation seems very one sided which I wouldn't be happy about either. I remember the baby days and how important adult company in the evenings can be.

Seeking to negotiate what he should spend would be seeking to control his alcohol problem, and would be futile.

There were probably "red flags" even before you became pregnant, which you missed. If you really reflect on it. Even if not, he has really let you down and been a poor partner and father.

Please do seek help for yourself from Al Anon.

If you've issued the ultimatum and he's not changing his behaviour it'd be sensible to assume he won't / can't, and plan accordingly.

Loving someone and the relationship having previously been good are not reasons to stay with someone behaving so awfully.

I'm really interested in posts like this as I'm in a similar position re EBF and partner not confident with baby, so I end up doing most of it, and he goes out pretty regularly (every Sunday to the pub quiz, and odd work nights/mate days here and there). The big difference is, he does EVERYTHING around the house (cooking, shopping, handying, most of the cleaning), plays with baby so I can do quickish things like wash, and helps with bathtime when he's here etc. But we're certainly not in a place where I can go off for a couple of hours after feeding and not fear coming home to a hot mess. This is partly baby (she's a bit difficult), partly bf, but largely because like you I didn't allow/insist that he get more involved early on, so baby is very bonded with me and not so much with him (she loves him but when she gets angry/upset it's me she wants) and he is not confident dealing with her when she is angry/upset. It's a real bind, I'll watch with interest to see how you manage it! Good luck xx

Also though, the coming home pissed during baby's waking hours is not on AT ALL. Drunk people shouldn't be around small children and certainly not caring for them. And yes, very boring for you. I would not accept that from my OH - tell him if he's going to have more than 1 or 2 he can bloody well stay out, at least until after baby has gone down, as you don't trust him with her. DP and I have a rule that if he's going on the piss, he goes straight to the spare room and does not pass go when he gets home - I don't want to talk to a pissed person, or watch on tenterhooks while he either crashes around and wakes sleeping baby or clumsily plays with an awake one. He agrees to this without question, as it's only sensible!

Although I think the drink thing is a red herring - the problem you have isn't with the drinking per SE, it's with feeling isolated and unsupported. He could go out and get wazzocked with his mates once a week and I dare say you would be tolerant - it's feeling like you can never have an adult conversation, or hand over care of the baby, which is making you angry (justifiably!!) not the fact he likes to drink when he socialises.

The drink isn't a "red herring" if the H has an alcohol problem.

Yes 'if'. Could be he just has a facing up to his responsibilities problem.