It's finally happened. I've been dumped.

[CheeseAndOnionIcecream]

Been in a relationship with him for just over 4 years. He belongs to a religion,I am an atheist. He knew the score right from the start,and has always known that I would not convert. Today he phones me and says that if I convert,we can get married,if not,our relationship is over. I'm gutted. I cannot put aside my principles and convert to a religion,ANY religion. He said he still loves me but if we stay together unmarried,he will 'go to eternal hell'. And he can only marry me if I convert. So that's it really. I just feel numb. I should have seen it coming shouldn't I? He had gradually become more 'fervent' (if that's the right word) about his religion over the last 18 months. So I can't say it is a total surprise. But even so,now it's actually happened,I just feel gutted.

Treated not tested iPhone ffs!

It's the OP 's ex who has been tested. And has failed.

Better now than a few years down the line.

How old are you op? TBF people do change over 4 years especially when fairly young. What he thought may be possible 4 years ago, may not be now. He might not have done it deliberately and he might now be in real turmoil if he genuinely loves you but has to deal with his more "fervent" beliefs.

Be strong, it's not going to work so ask him to stop contacting you.

Don't think this is a Muslim bashing thread at all!
I've met more than a few 'deeply religious' men AND women who demand their partner converts. It's just grubby and it makes my blood boil. I'm religious, but would never dream my DH ought to convert to anything he wasn't fully happy with. To me that's as bad as demanding a certain bidy shape, appearance, housewife skills etc.
The OP is pretty upset and needs support and perspective.

Cheese - it's really not anything you've done - or didn't do - he's an idiot and deserves what's coming to him.
You deserve lots of hugs, a shoulder to cry on, and to find a fabulous person who loves you for YOU!

One more thing just to highlight what a lucky escape you had OP - there is no such thing as 'conversion lite' where you do so just for appearances 'to keep your new family happy'. If they were a good family they wouldn't need your conversion to keep them happy. They either accept you for who you are or they will never accept you. Four years is as nothing compared to a lifetime chained to religion

I can speak from bitter, painful and terrifying personal experience.

From my own family experience of mixed faith or even religious / less religious relationships (and I am in one myself), sadly in the following facts are remarkably common if one of the parties is a Muslim.

1. It will almost invariably be a Muslim man and a non-Muslim girl/woman
2. On the extremely, extremely rare occasion that a Muslim girl/woman is in a relationship with a non-Muslim boy/man - both of them will be in fear for the lives at the hands of the Muslim woman's family. This is no exaggeration. My family has personal experience of this. I am not joking that the boy and girl could find themselves pursued and then attacked/murdered as an "honour killing" by the family / community of the Muslim woman. I have UK born, western educated acquaintances (not friends) who tell me that they would have "no choice" but to kill their sister and the "Kafir" (non-Muslim man) who had "defiled" her. Interestingly, there has been not one recorded case of a Muslim boy / man being persecuted / attacked / killed by his community if he is in a relationship with a non-Muslim woman. Things will only get tricky for him in the eyes of his family/community if, and only if, marriage appears on the cards. Off the record, many Muslim men will tell you that the community largely turns a blind eye to Muslim men "getting their needs met" before marriage with non-Muslim women (and yes there is a pecking order of religions/races they view as "fair game". Sadly the faith of a dear, dear friend, Sikhism, came near the bottom of this pecking order.
3. The Muslim man will most likely have a "No ifs no buts" attitude to the non-Muslim converting to Islam if the relationship is going to be anything other than casual sex

I feel really sorry for you OP

I have a teenager daughter myself and will make sure she is fully aware of the above three points and go into any such situation fully aware and informed from the outset.

I am sure that I will now be reported/ vilified by the MN PC brigade. But everything I have said above comes from my own direct family and personal experience. I am not saying for a moment that "all Muslims" are like this, just that the "rules" of relationships with Muslims tend to follow the three points I have laid out above.

If this post is reported or deleted, then MN risks feeding the same beast that led to Rotherham, Rochdale, etc

We have to be able to talk about this stuff maturely, calmly and without hatred or fear that facts might upset.

optionalrationale I'd say that your experiences are nothing to do with religion, but a whole lot to do with misogyny and patriarchy.

Well the people I am talking about would argue that Islam trumps all of that.

It is an uncomfortable truth (though a truth nevertheless) that so called 'Islamic societies' have more misogyny and patriarchy than most others and this does manifest in the way that optional describes. Whatever the exact cause it is disingenuous to pretend that this is not an issue blighting mixed Islamic non Islamic relationships in particular - though obviously not exclusively.

But everything I have said above comes from my own direct family and personal experience.

And so start the anecdotes and the "I'm not racist, xenophobic, prejudice, BUT...." posts.

If he is of Pakistani origin, I would bet my mortgage that his family are putting him under severe pressure right now to marry a first cousin
Generalising much?! How can you expect a "mature discussion calmly without hatred or fear of facts" when you've just painted all Pakistanis with the same brush that they all get married to first cousins?!

Your Islam trumps all comment shows your ignorance, because you seem to be confusing culture with religion. There's a lot of men, regardless of religion, culture who are misogynists. Why blame a whole religion or people from a specific country?!

Don't act like you mean well. It's obvious you have a one sided view of Muslims or Pakistanis in particular. There's a name for people like you.

HateSummer
There is nothing I have said that is not factual. I have said before that clearly not all men, not all Muslims, and yes - certainly not all Muslim Men of Pakistani origin. But if you jump on the bandwagon of There's a name for people like you, you inevitably create the same set of circumstances that prevented the situation in Rotherham, Rochdale and other towns from being discussed calmly and coolly. There is no point in brushing this stuff under the carpet and hoping that accusations of the R-word will be enough to silence the facts.

Hatesummer I think there are 2 words, bitter experience. To say what Option experienced is not true is burying your head in the sand. Yes, it's an awful way to treat women, and saying these males aren't true muslims/don't follow Islam is very dangerous. Too many times the community turns a blind eye and IME, the behaviour of ladies of that community to women who aren't is awful.

I'm not denying what happened in Rotherham was wrong. Infact it makes me angry that these men weren't jailed for fear of being seen as racist. If they'd been stopped at the first instance, it would never have escalated. No one is brushing it under the carpet! However, when you start making generalised comments about a specific community only marrying first cousins, can you not see why it may offend them?! Your giving anecdotes about what you've seen or had happen in your family. I can give anecdotes about my white British friends who have been abused by white British men, and I can count 3 on my fingers right now. These women suffered years of physical, mental and financial abuse. There are abusive twats in every faith and race.

Absolutely agree HateSummer but deflecting with "Well look at White British men" is not helping to tackle the core issue - in fact it makes this type of behaviour more likely. Indeed "We're not the only ones" was used as a a defence by one of the Rotherham rapists.

I repeat, I am not talking about "all" - clearly there are tens of thousands that do not follow these patterns of behaviour. But where these patterns do exist, we would be very foolish to deny them for fear of being labelled.

I realise this is sensitive for you and you have my sympathy. But until the community itself (and particularly women in the community) speak up against it - we will see more and more stories like OPs and the ones from my own family.

I'm a Muslim woman optional. I was once engaged to a Sikh man. I'm quite sure that there were people in my community who weren't very impressed but nobody threatened to kill me. What is it exactly you think Muslim women should speak out about?

He can marry you, Muslim men can marry outside of Islam. So he's just choosing not to and using religion as an excuse. You've had a lucky escape.

I think you probably come from a very tolerant and understanding family StatelessPrincess. What did you decide religion?

OP, I've been there, although it was a shorter relationship when I was young.

After several months of him getting himself tied up in knots about whether I could convert, or whether I would ever be accepted, he decided that his family was his priority. I'd made it very clear that I was very happy as I was, and was not going to convert.

Within a few months, he'd had an arranged marriage to his cousin. He contacted me a few times, telling me how much he missed me, how he "couldn't have an affair" but it was me he loved etc

I was quite heartbroken at the time, but I've always been quite a tough cookie with men etc, so I just him he'd have to get over it and stop contacting me, for the sake of his wife.

I have had to block him on all social media, as he would pop up from time to time.

In your position, I simply wouldn't engage at all now. Lick your wounds, move on.

StatelessPrincess

Apparently the teachings of Islam are clear on this. A Muslim man can marry a Jewish or Christian woman (as they are People of the Scripture). A Muslim man can only marry a non Muslim, non Jew, non Christian if she converts to Islam first.

The rules are different for Muslim women. They can only marry Muslim men.
It is not permissible for a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim from any other religion, whether from among the Jews or Christians, or any other kaafir religion. It is not permissible for her to marry a Jew, a Christian, a magician, a communist, an idol-worshipper, etc.

And give not (your daughters) in marriage to Al‑Mushrikoon till they believe (in Allaah Alone) and verily, a believing slave is better than a (free) Mushrik (idolater), even though he pleases you. Those (Al-Mushrikoon) invite you to the Fire, but Allaah invites (you) to Paradise and forgiveness by His Leave, and makes His Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to mankind that they may remember

[al-Baqarah 2:221
Full source in link below
islamqa.info/en/21380

Optional I'm well aware of that although thanks for your patronising post anyway. The point I was making is that although I was doing something that is not allowed in our religion nobody threatened my safety. Honor killings are not common or normal, you seem to think otherwise.

Well played optional. It's strange that people can see how some glaring aspects of their religion are obviously wrong and people ignore but not that the obvious conclusion - that the entire religion must be invented by Man (capital m). Anyway I'm veering off topic a bit

As I have repeated and will do so now for the fourth time, I am not and have ever said "all Muslims, all Muslim Men or indeed All Muslim Men of Pakistani origin". There are exceptions and I am glad you were one of them.

But ask the average British Muslim man if he would be happy for his own daughter or sister to marry a non Muslim and let me know how they respond.

rightwhine - I'm 53! Divorced for 17 years with an adult daughter. He's 46. So there's no chance of us having any kids. I questioned him about this when I realised that we were getting serious (after about a year). He insisted that it wasn't an issue,he wasn't bothered about having kids. optionalrationale -He's not Pakistani,he's from Somalia. He has lived in this country for just over 20 years. He has no immediate family over here,his mother and sisters live in Ethiopia. He hadn't been back to see them until the year before last, when he went over to stay with them for 3 months,as his mum was seriously ill. We had an 'issue' a week after he came back. To cut a long story short,I had gone out to the shops while he waited at home. About an hour and a half after I'd gone out,I received a text from him saying he'd left. I wasn't sure what he meant and phoned him. He said on the phone he didn't feel 'comfortable with me any more',that I was 'haram' (forbidden) and that he was 'never coming back'. So of course I took it that it was all over. This was a week before Christmas. The thought that was going through my mind was that his family had been having a go at him, about not being married and being in a relationship with me. I'd accepted that it was all over between us. Then on Christmas morning at 10am,there was a knock on the front door. It was him. He had walked the 4 miles from his friend's house. He begged my forgiveness and pleaded with me to take him back. I did,because I loved him,and he seemed so genuinely sorry. It was not long after this that I noticed he seemed to be getting more serious about his religion,i.e. going to the mosque more frequently,praying more often and insisting that any meat he ate was halal, wheras before he hadn't been too worried about it. He was also in much more frequent contact with his sisters. The comments upthread about him having a marriage arranged for him has made me think. Maybe he gave me the ultimatum knowing full well that I'd refuse,therefore giving him a 'valid reason' to finish the relationship. Looking back,I wish I hadn't taken him back after he finished it back in December 2015.

Today 14:24 StatelessPrincess
Honor killings are not common or normal, you seem to think otherwise
Even one is too many. Wouldn't you agree?

Thanks Guava.

Another topic that is still not getting anywhere near the coverage it deserves is marriage between first cousins. Again we've been sold the McCarthyite lie that to even to question such practices makes us racists or intolerant of other cultures (like FGM until very recently).

The fear of being labelled Racist makes such topics taboo - even within the NHS which has to pick up the burden of dealing with congenital defects caused by the appearance of recessive genes (far more likely in generation after generation of first cousins marrying each other).

Which community has the highest incidence of this?