Nurses rough with dd

[andshewillbeloved]

My toddler dd had an overnight stay in hospital the other night and had to have an inhaler and paracetamol to reduce her temp. She was wheezing and breathing too fast.

I'm probably being PFB but the nurses were very forceful when it came to giving her the medicine and I'm left feeling a bi traumatised.

Am I being daft?

DD has had a couple of trips to hospital where the doctors and nurses have had to be forceful with her to put canulas in. I was actually thankful that on both occasions, they let me be the one to lead holding her down as I think that must have been a lot less traumatic than a stranger doing it. Hospitals don't give out medicine willy-nilly so if it's being given then it is needed and if a child is too young to understand then sometimes the kindest thing to do is just to get it over with as swiftly as possible.

We thought she had diabetes for a while when she was 2 and I spent a week pinning her down 4 times as day to check her sugar levels. Definitely traumatising for me but I believed then and now that it was important. I cried often that week but I'd do it all again tomorrow if I had to.

If she needs the inhaler more regularly there are lots of tricks which can help them tolerate it.

When ds was first ill at 8 weeks old I had to walk out of the room during some procedures because I couldn't bare to watch even though I knew it needed doing.

My son was constantly in hospital needing inhalers. Personally I did the pinning down myself. Much better that way than someone else. You need to develop a technique for it. Sitting them on your lap with one arm around their arms and one hand on there forehead does the trick.

Another one who has been reassured that inhalers work better when children are crying because they take deep breaths!

My GP said, when I had to give my son some particularly unpleasant tasting meds, that it was best to just do it and be over with. Warning, discussing, or talking about it in any way gives the impression that there is an element of choice about it, and there simply isn't. Acknowledging that it's not pleasant but will be dealt with as quickly and efficiently as possible is often the best way. I hope your daughter is feeling better - I suspect your lingering agitation is partly down to how helpless you feel in that situation, so be kind to yourself and bear in mind that she will not remember it.

Having a DC in hospital is a really difficult time, seeing very young children in pain and unable to understand what is happening is very very difficult.

On the one hand, a gentle YABU as medicine has to be administered and nurses will probably have been in a hurry.

On the other hand, for long term use of inhalers I have used operant conditioning on my son and he accepted the inhaler very quickly and happily from about 1yo. I used the same technique for my DD when she was 18mo and had to take foul tasting medicine long term.

I had no idea! A humbling thread. Great respect to all parents and professionals who take on these difficult and distressing procedures to help DC.

OP I had to hold my 7yr old daughter down to be anaesthetised for an MRI. It was horrendous and I had a really hard time afterwards. But she needed that MRI and she couldn't be convinced to cooperate. We are so used to the idea of developing our children's autonomy that it is exceedingly difficult when we come up against a hard line where we know they don't have the capacity to make the choice in front of them. It is traumatic to go through. Responding to that trauma is totally understandable, but ultimately you have to hold on to the knowledge that your DD needed those drugs and allowing the nurses to do their job was far better for your DD than allowing her to refuse them.

I hope she's feeling much better soon.

It's awful to see your child fighting against something but knowing it's ultimately in their best interest so I fully understand how you are feeling. Ds needed a blood sample taken at 15months. His veins were too small and kept collapsing so two nurses had to pin him down while I held his head and the consultant dripped blood from his arm into a vial. Even the SHO on call was traumatised by that one

We or medical staff have pinned down poorly DS on numerous occasions, to get bloods, inject meds and canula etc. Even this week I've had to force an inhaler mask on him in the middle of the night. He hated it, but he was taking big breaths between the screaming.

DD was a nightmare, especially for eyedrops, and we were really struggling at one point, even had neighbours inquiring. She had to be held down by 1 parent and the nanny whilst other parent did the drops. Nothing - bribery, persuasion etc would work.

She actually ended up hospitalised because we couldn't get the eyedrops in and the infection spread.

Forcing is horrible to watch and do, but sometimes it's medically necessary.

DS2 was very ill and in an out of hospital for years as a child.

He would fight taking medication, blood tests, whatever, every single time.

I told him, that rather than the nurses holding him down to give medication, I would hold him down and do it if necessary. And I did, even though I would have to leave him with DH and have a private cry afterwards.

I always checked beforehand that he needed it, and, if he needed it I had a responsibility to make sure he had it. And I decided that it was better I forced him with love, than an apparent (lovely) strange nurse.

It's very hard, but, he remembers now that although he hated all the medical interventions, he knew that if I made him do it, it needed to be done. The reality was, he wouldn't have been alive now as a big strapping 20yo, if he had not had the medication or treatment.

YABU but you know that...
I was helped by a medical friend who said that one should remember that in one sense you are assaulting your child whatever medicine you give if they are not old enough to properly consent. Decide ... do they need it or not.... if they need it get it into them as quickly and painlessly as you can. With little children this means immobilising them and going for it. They aren't old enough to understand so there is no point negotiating and they are not meant to 'like 'it.
The good thing is that ventolin works very quickly and children usually understand this and are happy for inhalers between 2and 3.

"When they put the mask over his mouth he struggled to push it off and then went floppy. The anaesthetist had explained that he wouldn't like the gas and might struggle "

The more they struggle, the more they breathe and the faster it takes effect.

So sorry to hear you had to go through that. I am not at all surprised you found it traumatic. Give it a little while, but if you aren't recovering then seek help - especially if you end up with flash backs

My advice for the future is to get out of the room. For one thing you might get roped into helping restrain your chid - and I can't recommend that.

If the staff advise you not to be present then definitely don't. They know when things are going to be hard to watch.

I think a lot of the people who say better for a parent to force the child may be right - but only if the parent and child have had time to build up the bond beforehand and the parent is already trusted and the forcing us just a blot/test of that trust. The kid thinks my mum is ususlky lovely so I must really have to do this and it won't really hurt that much.

My baby was having invasive procedures from a week old - I never had time to bond with her or build up that trust hence why I stopped watching and aiding in countless distressing and traumatic procedures and instead stepped away and let someone else do them then sweeped back in after and said 'all done' and gave a cuddle so she knew I was always safety. It was the only way I could still bond with my baby. The nurses are also very well practiced! You just do what you need to as there is no right or nice way to get it done.
At home and where we could in the hospital my husband was there helping/comforting. He did the inhalers at home. I watched cannulas, blood tests where they couldn't draw blood, intubation, anesthesic, injections galore, a Dmsa, flexible laparoscopy and many X-rays before I worked out this was the only way I could cope.

Give the inhalers in her sleep when you give them at home - no tears or pinning down necessary.

I hope your DD recovers well and is home soon. (xx)

There's quite a range and difference between being unacceptably rough and not as gentle as you would have been

Hope you feel better after some sleep and your DD is recovering well

It's really tough when there so little and need medication, I never realised the strength my toddler had until we had to try and give him inhaler through spacer!
One nurse turned it into a game where we would count his favourite characters e.g. Ones Spider-Man, two Spider-Man and then give him a sticker to put on volumetric.
We then kept practising when he felt well so that it wouldn't add to his distress when he was struggling to breath . Hope this helps

Just coming back to this as I remember that the first time dc was hospitalised and required the inhaler we were advised to let him "play" with the spacer tube once we got home so that he became more familiar with it. We used to make a game of practicing the "puffs" and counting each one on dh, me, various teddies and cuddly toys and the cat so that he got used yo it. Obviously we didn't actually dispense any medication when practicing but it all helped normalise the inhaler iyswim

Actually OP, I think you are not being unreasonable. Surely there is a better way? And if there isn't, they should have prepared you for how they would do it. Just because they're busy and it's a child, that's not an excuse to treat a patient without dignity... How frightening it must be for a toddler. This would really upset me. If they talked you through it first at least you'd be better equipped to comfort/distract your toddler and reassure them during the procedure.

Be thankful she's well enough to be back at home. If she hadn't of had the medicine that wouldn't be the case.

Hope your DD is feeling better. Xx

I geniunely think we can strive for something better than 'as long as they are alive we should be pathetically grateful'.

It is that kind of thinking that enables hcp's to treat women devastatingly badly during childbirth and get away with it.

Morphene, I don't think anyone is suggesting that at all. The reality is that administering medicine to small, wriggling children who are often anxious/unwell/upset can be very difficult and it can often look unpleasant. However up until maybe age 3ish it can be virtually impossible to explain to a child what is happening and why. By all means you can try to explain but generally the child simply won't have enough comprehension because of their age.

Dispensing asthma medication can literally be a life/death requirement.
Your "pathetically grateful" comment is a somewhat disingenious in my view.

Morphene: I have had extensive and regular experience of all sorts of very difficult medical and surgical procedures carried out on my child, from birth to teen-hood.

I have never once encountered any behaviour from hospital staff that was unkind or unnecessarily 'rough'. Sometimes things are just going to be horrible. Sometimes it is best to hold the child firmly and get it done as fast and fuss free as possible, because a 2.5 year old and under is NEVER going to acquiesce and keep still . They probably are not able to choose to keep still when having something done that is invasive, intrusive or uncomfortable. IME nurses work at the level of the child and communicate differently when they are older.

And as a parent, you just have to be the grown up. For your child's sake. And cry later.