To feel sorry for Theresa May

[thinkiamgoingcrazy]

I think she has been an awful PM: evasive / divisive / arrogant / authoritarian / sneering / dog whistling.

I am glad that she no longer has a majority, hopefully allowing more voice to the many and diverse opinions in the oppositions as well as in the moderate wing of the Tory party.

I am also glad that we are apparently going back to government by cabinet meeting rather than by advisers (probable overstatement I know).

And yet I feel sorry for her . Now a puppet at the mercy of her ruthless party.

She reminds me of Glenn Close at the end of Dangerous Liaisons.

TM has kept her cool whilst the media has whipped up a frenzy.

Kept her cool or..........hidden?

I'll go with hidden.

Then what's Bojo's, Gove's and Thatcher's excuse?

These people don't understand because they and their kids are insulated from that kind of hardship and will never get it, and they are right-wingers who essentially think that if you are poor you deserve it.

It's possible for a wealthy politician to have compassion, but having kids or not having them isn't the key.

Trump has 5 children.

Let's give her time. She wanted extra time in office and she has achieved that

She had plenty of time. And a majority. Rather than work with people, she chose to call an election.

Channelling Mrs. Merton

"So Prime Minister, with a massive lead in the opinion polls and an opposition leader perceived as weak, what made you call an election?"

An election where the tactic was if you vote for Corbyn, look at what might happen. Well, it wouldn't have happened if you hadn't called an election, would it?

Let's give her time. She wanted extra time in office and she has achieved that

I think she was thinking 5 years, not the five months, she'll be luck to get after her catastrofuck of a campaign. Her backbenchers could be telling her to do one as we speak.

Only time will tell how good she will be.

After seeing her close up, the public decided they didn't reckon her much at all. She came into the campaign with massive approval ratings and an opinion poll lead to die for
She then proceeded to slash that lead every time she opened her mouth.

Cameron has children and sadly one of them died. He had first hand experience of the NHS and disability. Still managed to cause real anger about that though - and he used his experience to shut down any debate about that.

Then what's Bojo's, Gove's and Thatcher's excuse

That clown Johnson must be the most compassionate politician out there having fathered another child whilst married to his wife. He's got two families on the go.

Plus she got more votes than David Cameron and only marginally less than Thatcher did.

The girl needs time

I'm sure Theresa appreciates your support at this difficult time QuiteLikely. But there's no spinning those results.

Plus she got more votes than David Cameron and only marginally less than Thatcher did.

The comparison isn't valid as those elections were contested where there was a competitive third party. This wasn't the case this time round and the vote was split two ways.

13.6 million voters wanted the Tory party to run the country. They knew she was going to be at the helm - just because the party lost a few seats it doesn't mean folk changed their mind!!!

They didn't vote for the bloody glory!

histinyhands You see, I think that you can either have Lady T 'the lady's not for turning', or you might just acknowledge that she listened. Cameron U turned, and it was proof that he was listening, so why not for May? It's because she's a successful woman, and MN doesn't like that if she doesn't meet the current MN zeitgeist.

Again, I think she was right to highlight that people should expect to contribute to their care needs and that this would be looked at over the next parliament. It's not a tax on dementia, but an attempt to open a debate. The elderly don't just go into care because of dementia - my late Grandmother went in because she has cancer in her kidneys, and her sheltered accommodation wouldn't allow carers to come in and help her. She had all her marbles right to her death at 92. Calling it a dementia tax is imo very lazy shorthand. Given that the floor was raised from £14k (the £23k is when some help kicks in), then it was being far more generous than at present.

Calling the election - well, I fail to see that anyone else would have done anything else.

Refusing to debate - so? We are not the US, as lots on here repeatedly seem to want to give thanks for, and yet you want US style debates. A debate wouldn't have told me anything I didn't already know and had found out from other sources.

I got confused during the election - I was beginning to think that JC stood for Jesus Christ and not Jeremy Corbyn from the almost messianic fervour on here - you'd have thought it was the Second Coming at times.

*Boys^ I wonder how much input she had into the campaign, and secondly, I am well aware of the difference between convictions and being stubborn...but it is possible to be both, I refer you to Lady T.

Plus she got more votes than David Cameron and only marginally less than Thatcher did

OTOH - more people voted this time so that's why there are more votes.

Corbyn got a higher percentage of the vote than Blair in 2001 and 2005.

Refusing to debate - so? We are not the US, as lots on here repeatedly seem to want to give thanks for, and yet you want US style debates. A debate wouldn't have told me anything I didn't already know and had found out from other sources.

But happy to send someone to debate by proxy?

Cowardly.

Why would 'anyone else' have called this election? She had a majority and three years left to run.

There was no need for one. It was a vanity stunt which, from what I've seen is likely to end up costing the taxpayer well upwards of £100 million. And this is a party that lectures the rest of us on 'fiscal responsbility'.

In fact I think the tory party should pay for this totally needless exercise from their own coffers.

I wonder how much input she had into the campaign, and secondly, I am well aware of the difference between convictions and being stubborn...but it is possible to be both, I refer you to Lady T.

If she was not directing the overall direction of the campaign, what the hell was she doing? If it wasn't something she was happy with, it was entirely within her power to say so.

Likewise, I'm aware that it is possible to be both stubborn and principled, but May isn't. No one can articulate what Mayism is, like you could Thatcherism (although I suspect you and I have different views on Thatcher)

She's the principled politician who warned about the dangerous of Brexit, not 12 months ago, yet now casts herself as an ardent brexiteer, the woman who said there was no need for an early election 7 times and then called one?

Weak, weak, weak.

OP I just wanted to say I understand what you mean. It's what makes us human. I also totally oppose the Tory government am delighted at the kicking they have been given! But on a purely human level I feel a touch of sympathy for TM, just because I can't help but wondering how awful she must feel. I'm not saying she doesn't deserve it and I certainly don't dwell on it, but still. It's similar to when I think about my cunt of an ex who has tried for years to make my life as difficult as possible, dragged me through court dor years, gave up his job so he wouldn't have to pay child support, etc. When I think of what a pathetic human being he is, it can actually make me quite sad! Doesn't mean I wouldn't be glad if he got struck by lightening tomorrow, but still.
I like to think my empathy helps me be a decent human being.

We do have debates now, yes it's a newish thing and imported from the US, but it's not exactly groundbreaking. After all parliament is about debate.

When the other leaders will do it and she won't it does look bad. I think her attitudes and public appearances during the campaign suggested that she's terrified of thinking on her feet and answering questions without preparation. And that "magic money tree" answer she gave to a member of the public revealed she isn't good at engaging/empathising/listening, she just goes on the defensive.

I think that did a lot of damage, it made her look less human and less able to basically have a normal interaction with people. No wonder her personal rating dropped.

Agree Boysofmelody - it's all very well being a stubborn "bloody difficult woman" if you have a clear, passionate, driving principle that you're being stubborn about.

It doesn't look so good when you've flip-flapped around all over the place on multiple issues. It just looks disorganised and obstinate.

Re U-turns, a principled, effective leadership making one U-turn because they have listened to the public and accepted a mistake is possibly a sign of strength and flexibility.

Making loads of U-turns because you keep coming up with crap unworkable policies and having second thoughts, not so great.

It's painful to watch her desperately clinging onto power. She brought this all on herself.

It's difficult for me to understand how people can be saying that she won this election. No. She lost slightly less than labour did, its true. But let's go a bit deeper into that, shall we?

She called an election when there was no need to do so, at a time when she was way ahead in the polls but also facing a huge negotiation imminently. I've been a civil servant during elections - business stops. You can't announce anything, you can't get hold of a minister because they're all off campaigning. So at a time when the government should have been working flat out to get ready for brexit, it was instead ground to a halt.

She then failed to return a majority. No, Labour didn't return a majority either. But they've now got a weak government to thwart, and their leader has gone from being seen as a liability to an asset. Their manifesto was almost certainly undeliverable but that doesn't matter because they don't have to try and deliver it. Instead they can play the long game. And regaining seats and voters will bring the PLP back - next time there's an election, the likes of Yvette Cooper will probably be on side, and like her or not, she can be very effective (she was one of my ministers).

So in the long run, I think Labour have lost less than the Tories, who are now the party that gambled at a terrible time for the country and lost. And the blame for that lands at one door - Theresa May's.

She may not have lost, but she sure as hell didn't win.

The manifesto was just shite, it offered nobody nothing and alienated their core vote. Fox hunting was a stupid thing to put in, the whole thing just put the cons on the defensive and they stayed on the defensive.

Campaign was too long and I think TM spent too much time chasing after elusive working class northern voters and UKIP vote, I suppose they arrogantly assumed everyone else would just vote tory.
Her advisors were crap, but the buck stops with her.

I do feel a bit sorry for her and I think the rest of the Conservative party should also take a good look at itself. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but did none of them start to think it was going badly or were they all blinded by the polls.

The result seems to have come as a huge shock to all of them, not just TM. As a voter, you could see they were losing traction but they just ploughed on regardless with the same old plan.
Although, to be fair, even Dimbleby looked a bit taken aback at the result.
As a conservative voter I'm pretty pissed off with the whole lot of them.

I actually felt more sorry for Margaret Thatcher, not because I cared for her in any way but because she was dumped by the very people whose careers she had built.

Theresa May on the other hand is a chancer who took a punt because she thought she would win. She has dumped her party, her colleagues and her country in the shit and doesn't even have the grace to admit it.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but did none of them start to think it was going badly or were they all blinded by the polls.

They all assumed (as did most people) that it would be a walkover. Even towards the end after a disastrous campaign I think they still assumed if not a landslide that they'd still achieve a comfortable enough win. The exit poll was such an almighty WTF moment. For everyone.

Refusing to debate - so? We are not the US, as lots on here repeatedly seem to want to give thanks for, and yet you want US style debates.

If you won't debate then don't run a US style presidential campaign that is all about You and how strong you will be at the negotiating table...

I got confused during the election - I was beginning to think that JC stood for Jesus Christ and not Jeremy Corbyn from the almost messianic fervour on here - you'd have thought it was the Second Coming at times.

See, this is odd. People are clearly at a loss to find much good to say about T.May because they always drift straight into talking about JC. I'm not a JC fan, I'm not particularly a Labour supporter, so why does the conversation always turn to him?

"He's worse," is a terrible campaign strategy.

I know many people - who would usually vote Conservative - who think T.May has been absolutely dreadful. (I don't know who they all voted for in the end). There's a poll in The Times today saying 60% of Cons believe she should step down.