To be depressed at the parenting I've seen today

[sowhatusernameisnttaken]

On Friday at the supermarket some woman came across the car park f'ing and blinding and shouting at her husband saying "you can forget me going anywhere tomorrow" her daughter piped up "going where mummy?" "Anywhere with your fucking father" cue more swearing from him then them piling into the car and her screeching off. I felt so much for the poor girl.
Today, same supermarket, woman having a go at her toddler sat in the trolley scowling at him and then when he made a fuss her saying patronisingly "bye bye" and waving slowly side to side whilst walking backwards away from him, again I felt so much for the poor little boy.
Then walking out to the car a woman swearing into her phone with her daughter by her side saying "you can't just fucking drive off you're supposed to be picking up your fucking daughter" And more swearing and shouting.
I realise people don't lead perfect lives and I sometimes shout myself but the way in which it was done shamelessly in public in full view I felt so much for those poor children and the environment they're being brought up in. I found it so depressing.
I'm lucky I just have one child and no stress which I realise makes me less likely to act like this but still :-(

What also interests me is how quickly we make the assumptions and align our sympathies

Either we sympathise with the parents - poor them, kids are acting up, pressing their buttons, no wonder they've lost it.

Or we feel for the child because their misery reminds us our how helpless we were as children.

I can't help thinking that our own upbringings and childhoods play a big part here in which way we go.

Well I saw a woman let her kid pick up and throw every single apple in a box rather hard either in to the box below or, usually, miss and bounce onto the floor. Whilst saying "oh stop that, silly sausage", and giggling indulgently. One attempt was made to "persuade" child to move away. Why not just take his arm and lead away??

They were far from "not respectable" and were rather "naice" type people, with all the right brand of raincoat (as mentioned on that awful MC food thread!) and type of baby sling in a MN approved shop ... I raise my eyebrows at that kind of bullshit faffy parenting just as much as the kind you describe in your OP.

Dare I ask what response you got when you intervened? Could you make things worse for the child by doing that?

What if you intervened and it really had just been a one-off.

Not saying you are wrong to do so but wondering if it is always the right course of action.

chickendrizzlecake
I think it's difficult to try and explain what makes us feel one way or the other. Probably our own experiences and reading the situation (which is more complex than can be explained online)

E.g. if I see a parent looking utterly frazzled and having a moment my heart goes out to them even if I dislike the shouting. But if I see/hear an entire conversation and the kids are screaming and parent is screaming and nobody is bothered by the swearing then I'll admit I do judge because it's seems like normality to them.

I agree with trinity though, ineffective 'there there silly sausage' when the child is clearly acting like a brat is equally annoying.

I think we all judge a little. It's human.

I've seen it a lot lately too. Usually it's the two parents swearing and arguing in front of the kids. Sometimes parents hitting each other.

It makes me very glad my daughter has been raised in a single parent household, safe from all that.

I've never been much of a swearer, and anyway not in front of the children. The breakout came one day when 2 teens and one almost-teen were arguing around the kitchen table. It was getting physical, they were on their feet... I let rip. Silence. Then middle child, "Ooo-er, mum said fuck". And all 3 collapsed in laughter.
They are approaching middle-age now and still occasionally, when they are together, one of them will say, "do you remember. that time mum said Fuck?"

If it depresses you, why are you wallowing in it by telling random strangers about it? Are you determined to hear more depressing tales of human cruelty? You know this is going to make you feel worse if you are genuinely depressed about it rather than delighting in sitting in judgement. And it won't correct the behaviour you witnessed. You are being rather ghoulish.

I think the f-ing in front of dc is unpleasant in public. No one wants to hear it.

Saying bye bye to a toddler playing up not so.

Kids are wearing.

Kids are wearing, but when they get to much its best to leave them somewhere safe and then go and sit in another room for a while, if the alternative is abusing them.

Didofido - it was funny because you never did it before. Some children hear it day in day out, often directed at them.

I'm lucky I just have one child and no stress which I realise makes me less likely to act like this but still having some stress in your life, or more than one child doesn't make you act like that either

Aside frrom which, swearing on front of kids...meh!! They are just words, tiny kids don't even understand them. Yes, some kids copy but there are worse things they can do!

Walking away from an upset kid - not great!

There but for the grace of God. None of us are saints, and none of us have it together 100% of the time.

Well yes I agree that there is ineffective, rubbish parenting, but aren't we guilty of moral relativism when we hold that up and say that it is 'just as bad' as shouting and swearing at kids?

Shit parenting is shit parenting whether it's "naive" and ineffectual I.e. Letting your kids be entitled brats or being nasty & cold.

Must admit I draw a distinction between swearing and swearing AT - I'm pretty free with the swear words (I.e. I would say oh for fuck's sake in a mild tone if I was running late, or Arrgghh fucking hell if I stubbed my toe) but I would never in a million years direct it AT DS.

I'd feel incredibly guilty and fully expect to have the shit judged out of me if I did that.

I also think that being cold to your kids is far more damaging than a bit of effing & blinding.

By naive I meant "naice" - stupid auto correct

You could have two sets of parents delivering the same set of words but with a world of difference in tone and attitude. Sometimes it is pure frustration and sometimes just plain aggressiveness and nastiness. I think you can tell the difference sometimes. The first I wouldn't judge, the second, I would.

So you witnessed 2 women swearing at their ex / partner in anger (for what reason you do not know) and a woman telling off a toddler (also for what reason you do not know)....

You are a horribly judgemental person and everything that is wrong with the parenting world.

Everyone loses it sometimes and shouts or swears. If you tell me you don't then your a LIAR!

Short of a parent getting in the face of a child / name calling / hitting a child I wouldn't judge or get involved.

Perhaps if we all supported each other instead of judging then the world would be a nicer place.

I notice that no one has actually articulated WHY it's bad for children to hear profanity that isn't directed at them (even though you can rest assured that by age 7 they'll be hearing worse at school anyway) or to - shock horror - hear parents argue.

I agree children should not see parents physically hitting each other, and that swearing should not be directed AT children, but aside from that I don't see the issue.

Velvet
Because it's not how people talk in most polite day to day conversation.

If I was at work and disagreed with somebody I wouldn't say 'for fucks sake why are you such a fucking idiot' and drop swear words every few seconds.

I'm not a prude, nor am I anti-swearing. I fo think there is a time and a place for swearing e.g. with adult friends, down the pub in an adult environment, if you hurt yourself and it turns out the child is in the background isn't ideal but it's totally understandable. Even an argument behind closed doors.

Regular swearing in day to day general conversation just sounds crass. I don't want children thinking that's how most people talk in day to day interactions.

People swear at my work and have in every workplace I've worked in for the last 10 years. (Lawyer working in large corporate). Probably wouldn't in a presentation but no one bats an eyelid in normal office chat.

Clusterfuck is a very handy expression for the office!

I don't think it's bad for kids to hear swearing - I tell DS it's driving language and only people with driver's licences can use it (because I always swear in traffic 😬)

YANBU. But you can't do anything about it. Lots of kids grow up in horrible conditions with horrible parents who scream and swear at them. Many of them then grow up to scream and swear at their own children and the cycle is repeated. The parents you saw probably had miserable childhoods too.

I can't believe people are asking why it's bad to swear and shout in front of children?

There is a world of difference between swearing generally and swearing at someone.

My boss wouldn't care if I said "this negotiation is a bit of a clusterfuck/we're dealing with some shit from the other side" vs me saying to her "you're a fuckwit with shit for brains". One is fine, one most definitely is not. Ditto for swearing round or at kids.

Gennz
Totally agree there's different levels of swearing in the workplace. E.g. I came off a phone call that was lengthy and pointless and said to a colleague in the office 'same shite different day'. Wouldn't say it outside the office.

In all workplaces I've been in people have sworn, but it's usually odd word here and there and it's not part of the 'I'm going to make 25%of my sentences be punctuated with swearing'.

The thing with swearing is that sometimes it's just the right phrase e.g. clusterfuck but other times its just totally excessive, unnecessary and sounds awful.

At every office I've worked in during my working life (23 years) people swear. Not on phone to customers (although plenty swear at us) but in general discussions and meetings. None of us have had an attack of the vapours because of it.

Children hear plenty of swearing at school . And as I said the worst offenders for that are the parents who make a big fuss about NOT swearing anywhere in their little darling's earshot.

Oh yes maisy I agree.

Obviously I don't go out of my way to swear round children but I don't think it's terribly damaging if the odd F word slips out here and there.

Using aggressive sweaty language at your child is awful though.

I said shut up to DS the other day (after he'd scrawled all over the kitchen benchtop with permanent marker & was grizzling) and felt terrible and apologised to him.

Frankly I think they were extenuating circumstances but it was still a bit shit. I would fully expect people to judge (& rightly so) if they saw me telling a 2.5 year old to shut up!