TM will allow a debate on restricting abortion to cling on to power.

[catgirl1976]

AIBU to be disgusted? I'm reading that she will allow a UK debate on abortion limits to secure the DUP's support.

She's a disgrace. I don't care if you voted Tory or Labour or for Lord Buckethead, but surely any woman must feel appalled that their rights are up for sale to secure her (untenable anyway) position.

In NI we can't even have abortion in cases of fatal foetal abnormalities. I spent the first twenty weeks of my pregnancies worried that my baby would have a condition meaning he couldn't survive like anencephaly and I would have to carry him to term. Thank God he was perfectly fine. But this is a very real prospect for some women in NI. It is cruel and barbaric.

There have also been high profile cases of women being prosecuted here for buying abortion pills online. There are a group of amazing midwives who flout the law to advise women on the safe use of these pills.

The situation is truly awful here and it's not just the DUP. Only the Green Party actively support legalising abortion in NI.

FFS are we really going to start having the fucking abortion debate??!! ON MUMSNET?!?!

Instead debating something that won't happen because of a deal with a DUP. (Reduction to the limit)

Perhaps talk about something that the DUP enables and supports and is already in place.

Like:

Cathy Newman‏*@cathynewman*

A few facts on the PM's @duponline friends: 1) women can be jailed (maximum penalty life imprisonment) for "drug-induced miscarriage" 1/3
2/3 last year the UN expressed concerns about "the severe criminal sanctions for unlawful abortion" in Northern Ireland
3/3 @duponline leader Arlene Foster last year said: "I would not want abortion to be as freely available here as it is in England."

Jennifer Cobbe‏*@jennifercobbe*
Important to note that this isn't just hypothetical - there are women in NI awaiting trial right now for having an abortion.

There are women in our country on trial for having an abortion. But lets just forget them, and focus laws that don't exist and won't exist.

The English blinkers are spectacular. NI isn't our fight to have. FFS.

I and others have posted on this thread "we should be fighting for decriminalisation in Northern Ireland", plus Abortion Rights and other groups based in England have long been fighting these barbaric and misogynist laws with Northern Irish groups as far as I'm aware.

The situation is truly awful here and it's not just the DUP. Only the Green Party actively support legalising abortion in NI.

Definitely past time this was debated in parliament, this information shared and exposed and publicised. A debate would get this into the papers apart from anything else. The Green Party would probably more than welcome the chance to gain visibility and support on it.

The English blinkers are spectacular. NI isn't our fight to have. FFS

I actually support several abortion charities that operate in/for NI and Ireland and campaign for change.

If there is ANY hint of even debating repealing women's rights in England I will so so SO FUCKING ANGRY and really get involved in political protest.

People generally care more when something directly impacts them - humans aren't great like that.

Elendon. It's not a fucking competition as to was treated the worst or travelled furthest. I had to travel 3 hours there and back and had a soiled nappy and an empty bottle thrown at me from people protesting outside the clinic. I was 23 weeks gone.

And while it's legal to do it upto 24 weeks, it can be refused but referred on. My health trust refers on after 18 weeks.

Red I would happily do anything I could to further the cause of women in NI being allowed access to abortion.

I don't think being disgusted by TM teaming up with the DUP and potentially throwing English women's rights under the bus means you cannot also wish to improve things for women in NI or anywhere else.

I'm also disgusted by their stance on evolution, LGBT rights, climate change and the rest but I was horrified the first thing a Tory MP says "might" be a bargaining chip is abortion laws. That doesn't stop me being also disgusted that women in Ireland don't have access to abortions.

I get the need for late abortions when child is not going to survive, but they are also offered for disability or clef palate or other minor abnormality which can be easily operated on.

We don't want any more debate on abortion if anything it needs to be relaxed more to make it easier for people to have one. I know you can go private but then they still push all the psychological stuff on you like the NHS.

Needs to be more of a walk in walk out affair IMO, and then a lot more unwanted pregnancies would be aborted rather than changing your mind with should I or should'nt I scenario. If it is that situation in the first place they won't get a un-bringing worth having

Red that's quiet unfair - you can be concerned about more then one issue - when I lived in Liverpool we used to put women up over night - I do care

I get the need for late abortions when child is not going to survive more would survive if they didn't withhold treatment
Do they still offer forclef palate? Thats crazy. When we were in BCH babies would be in and out for the repair operation in a few days

If it's not a competition then why start one Brittbug80

Why are you being so aggressive? I'm on your side. I've been there too.

Cleft palet can be devastating though, I used to believe it was just something minor untill I saw a baby born with it, most of the face / top of mouth was gone/open sort of. THe child died.

How did I start a competition? I said that my trust doesn't carry out termination after 18 weeks, you told it was rubbish, I told you it wasn't, explained why, then you went off on way about how you were treated then asked if it was like that for me.

Needs to be more of a walk in walk out affair IMO,

Oh yeah, lets just be even more casual about killing unborn babies Vile attitude.

It's simple. Women have the control over who lives and who dies because it's their bodies and their life. They don't want to give birth, then that's their decision.

Men have been able to decide on wars for millennia and sent young men to battle to mostly lose their lives and become disabled. But that's okay.

Absolutely right Zeffering - abortion rights don't go far enough in England, never mind restricting them.

Why are people on this thread so concerned about unborn lives? So life is sacred etc and we should ensure that all fetuses have the chance of life, but our country treats those that ARE born alive like shit. We have the tories cutting benefits, cutting free breakfasts, trying to deport children, not intervening to help the thousands of children trying to flee absolute horrors. How about we treat those that are born well before we start harping on about hypothetical lives. And those who have shared premature birth stories- that doesn't have anything to do with abortion. Yes, your baby was born alive, but that should not prevent a woman who does not want to give birth to be able to access safe abortion.

As others have pointed out, nearly all late stage abortions are carried out where the baby has severe congenital defects that would affect their life. In fact (and I am sure it would horrify some of you), doctors can abort after 24 weeks and sometimes do. Are you saying disabled lives are worth less and this is OK? Or are you saying (as they do in NI) that a woman should be forced to give birth to a child with disabilities (and presumably care for it for the rest of its life with bugger all support from the state or anyone else)?

Also, the DUP nuts won't stop at lowering the limit. They think life begins at conception (and that the world is 4000 years old and presumably flat). They want abortion banned- they don't care whether it's at 20 weeks or 24. And it's all about controlling women and seeing them as mere vessels.

Owen Paterson is a woman-hating, religious pillock. He probably just said this because he personally wants abortions to be restricted more/entirely, and thought he'd throw the idea out there to see if it gets any traction.

Whattodoaboutthis - not babies , foetuses . Technically parasites

Oh yeah, lets just be even more casual about killing unborn babies hmm Vile attitude

Oh right? If you are concerned about babies suffering and being killed, maybe volunteer to do some aid work with refugees where actual babies and older children are being harmed, killed and abused daily. Maybe offer to be a foster parent to children born into abject poverty, abuse and neglect.

What do you want? To make the pregnant woman feel as bad as possible? To really string it out so that she realises what an evil sin she has committed? There are so many children born to parents who should never have had children. They suffer for it. It's very responsible to make the choice to terminate because you do not feel that you are able to offer a child the life he/she deserves. Nobody should be made to feel like a criminal for that.

It does need to be walk in walk out.

When I had one (fairly recently) I had to:

Book GP appointment
Wait 2 days for that
See my GP.
Be told by GP I needed to self refer to BPAS
Ring BPAS
Wait 2 more days for an appointment
Go for an initial appointment
Have a scan
Not be allowed my DH in the room as I had requested (though I get why this is the case)
Be told I was "too early" as they couldn't see the embryo on the scan
Go back a week later (worst week of my life)
Have another scan
Be told now they could see the embryo I could have the termination
Wait at the clinic for several hours for the consent from 2 doctors
Back in to see the nurse
Take the first tablet
Go home
Go back 2 days later
Have the second tablets
Then finally go home.

I would much prefer to be able to say to my GP "I want a termination" and then be told "Fine. Here are the tablets, take packet a) now and packet b) 24 hours later" and be left to be at home rather than scans and multiple trips to clinics etc.

I do appreciate the above is nothing compared to having to travel to a different country and pay for a private procedure btw. I think abortion everywhere should be far more accessible.

If you don't like abortion's then don't have one.

I held my dying son at 24 weeks, it was quite frankly traumatising I'll never get over it. But my experience has fuck all to do with what other women choose to do with their bodies.

That choice should be available till term. As early as possible, as late as necessary every time.