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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

TM will allow a debate on restricting abortion to cling on to power.

385 replies

catgirl1976 · 10/06/2017 09:29

AIBU to be disgusted? I'm reading that she will allow a UK debate on abortion limits to secure the DUP's support.

She's a disgrace. I don't care if you voted Tory or Labour or for Lord Buckethead, but surely any woman must feel appalled that their rights are up for sale to secure her (untenable anyway) position.

OP posts:
Original poster
catgirl1976 · 10/06/2017 17:31

Thanks UnbornMortificado. I'm so sorry for your loss.

OP posts:
honeysucklejasmine · 10/06/2017 17:34

Papa it's like they say about the Republican party. Pro life until you're born, then you're on your own.

Kokusai · 10/06/2017 17:36

For people who feel strongly about women's rights to safe and legal abortions please donate money or time if you can

www.asn.org.uk

QueenoftheAndals · 10/06/2017 17:37

At the same time, terminating a pregnancy AFTER the point at which the unborn baby can survive is problematic for many people, including me.

The vast majority of abortions are carried out before 12 weeks. The tiny minority that are done later and up to 24 weeks are usually for conditions incompatible with life, not because a woman changes her mind. If this limit changes then I hope the NHS gets the funding they'll need to deal with the increase in babies being born with severe health needs.

UnbornMortificado · 10/06/2017 17:39

I'm ok now cat thank you though the thing is, it was a loss for me. For other women it could of been a relief and that's fair enough.

Knowing people or going through this or even having/knowing babies that have survived at that point has nothing to do with what other women do with there bodies.

I hope that makes sense, I think PP's have explained it better but the whole pro life excuses and the situation in Ireland infuriates me.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/06/2017 17:39

The situation is truly awful here and it's not just the DUP. Only the Green Party actively support legalising abortion in NI.

I think Sinn Fein might support a change to allow it in cases of foetal fatality.

Whattodoaboutthis - not babies , foetuses Technically parasites
That's really going to change minds.

Why do you think the majority of MPs who did not back a reduction to 24 weeks last time are going to do a volte face and cave into the demands of 9 DUP mps? The DUP can ask for it to be debated - if it happens at all it will be a free vote.

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 10/06/2017 17:42

Oh yeah, lets just be even more casual about killing unborn babies

Ending unwanted pregnancies, actually.

They aren't unborn babies. They're embryos and foetuses.

Talk about hysteria Hmm

KimKardashiansArse · 10/06/2017 17:47

This is great news, I'm really pleased to hear it. As others have said, the current limit is much too high.

Zeffering · 10/06/2017 17:47

Catgirl76;

That does seem longwinded when having a medical abortion.

I think up to 9 weeks the abortion pill should be available over the counter on prescription. When people are in the mind to do it why spend longer where it causes more time to think

beardymcbeardy · 10/06/2017 17:51

Whattodoaboutthis - not babies , foetuses Technically parasites And this shitty attitude is why abortion limits are more likely to be reduced, rather than extended. But crack on. Personally im for a reduction in the limit.

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 10/06/2017 17:53

I wanted it done and dusted that day - not drag it out over weeks. I found that very hard.

Other people need time to think, everyone is different but I don't think it should be dragged out unnecessarily once someone has decided.

OP posts:
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/06/2017 17:53

KimKardashiansArse

This is great news, I'm really pleased to hear it. As others have said, the current limit is much too high

1.It was a throwaway remark by one mp which the OP and others have now recast as a fixed promise.

  1. The last time this was debated a large majority of MPs, mostly Labour but including Lib Dems, SNP and Conservative voted against it.
  1. There is nothing to suggest that would change. It is not government policy.

I am pleased therefore to dash your hopes.

Lasagnabreath · 10/06/2017 17:55

I think Sinn Fein would like to allow abortions for health reasons. However, not one Protestant would ever vote them in so that will never happen under their rule.

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 10/06/2017 17:57

I have NOT recast it as a fixed promise.

I AM disgusted it could potentially be used as a bargaining chip for TM's grasp on power, or even that such a thing could be suggested.

Women's reproductive rights are hard won and should not be tossed about like a free fucking £50 M&S Voucher when you sign up to Sky.

OP posts:
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/06/2017 17:57

Whattodoaboutthis - not babies , foetuses Technically parasites And this shitty attitude is why abortion limits are more likely to be reduced, rather than extended. But crack on. Personally im for a reduction in the limit

Personally I am happy to keep the existing UK law with the removal of the 2 doctor rule (which is pointless anyway) but I agree , comments like that are not in the least bit helpful to promote pro-choice.

user0000000001 · 10/06/2017 17:59

I have NOT recast it as a fixed promise.

You have stated that the debate is.

It isn't.

MrsTerryPratchett · 10/06/2017 18:00

Welcome to Ireland, Britain. Too right.

I believe in as early as possible, as late as necessary. In ALL cases.

I also do what a lot of pro-forced birth people should and don't. I support young mothers. We have had 6 so far, come and live in our home had their babies, got our support. A girl who was just 15 was the youngest.

In about half the cases, they probably should have had an abortion. Drugs, alcohol, smoking, abuse, neglect, horrible parenting from their own parents, nasty abusive fathers for the babies, really non-ideal pregnancies and first few months, even with support from us and various agencies. A lot of the babies end up in foster care anyway and by then have attachment and other issues. Girl's life and baby's life messed up.

Don't get me wrong, the girls and babies are lovely and I've loved each one. But this idea that instead of an abortion, a girl should be encouraged to have a perfect pregnancy, easy birth, immediately hand over the baby to a loving adoptive family while going on to continue her studies is a fairy tale.

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 10/06/2017 18:00

I said in my second post I hadn't found anything concrete and was looking for clarification.

However, it is a fact that a male, Tory MP has suggested this could happen. And that in itself is disgraceful IMO.

OP posts:
NoLoveofMine · 10/06/2017 18:01

And this shitty attitude is why abortion limits are more likely to be reduced, rather than extended.

I'd say accusing women who've had abortions of "killing" is a somewhat worse attitude.

VestalVirgin · 10/06/2017 18:04

Women's reproductive rights are hard won and should not be tossed about like a free fucking £50 M&S Voucher when you sign up to Sky.

Sums it up perfectly.

It is disgusting that there are people who even think it is legitimate to discuss that.

Women's rights are not up for debate.

Every time a party talks of removing women's rights, even if they have no current intention to do it, they move the overton window towards the oppression of women.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

And that is why it is so important to let them know that it is unacceptable and women's rights ARE NOT A MATTER OF DEBATE.

Papafran · 10/06/2017 18:14

Agree 100%, Vestal. It should be as basic as the fact that if you are sick, you are entitled to medical treatment. Not something that is open for any debate. How about we told men they could no longer take any pain-killing medication when having dental or medical procedures? No, because it would be inhumane and barbaric to subject someone to that. But to subject a woman to an unwanted pregnancy and birth is fine.

The fetus is not a child and referring to it as such is just designed to tug at heart strings. It becomes a child when it is born. No baby can survive at 24 weeks or even 28 weeks without extensive medical intervention to sustain them. I am sure that at some point in the future, it will be possible to gestate entirely outside the human body. That has nothing to do with the fundamental right to abortion.

Orlantina · 10/06/2017 18:20

However, it is a fact that a male, Tory MP has suggested this could happen. And that in itself is disgraceful IMO

Was he prompted or did he just think of it?

Why did he say that LGBT rights weren't up for negotiation but this is?

I wonder what Theresa May thinks? There will be some very difficult questions for her on TV and media interviews.

Original poster
catgirl1976 · 10/06/2017 18:24

I'm not sure Orlantina - I'd didn't hear the interview although apparently he is quite pro-life so it may have been unprompted.

I believe assurances about LGBT rights have been given to the leader of Scottish Labour (I think she pressed for them) but no such assurances have been made about women's rights as far as I know.

I wonder if TM will appear in many interviews - she certainly avoided them during the election and things are a whole lot tougher for her now

OP posts:
Original poster
catgirl1976 · 10/06/2017 18:25

Sorry - Scottish Conservatives I mean - I've been up since the crack of dawn with DS

OP posts:
Orlantina · 10/06/2017 18:27

I wonder if TM will appear in many interviews - she certainly avoided them during the election and things are a whole lot tougher for her now

Please let it be Radio 4 Today programme.

Or Paxman.......