TM will allow a debate on restricting abortion to cling on to power.

[catgirl1976]

AIBU to be disgusted? I'm reading that she will allow a UK debate on abortion limits to secure the DUP's support.

She's a disgrace. I don't care if you voted Tory or Labour or for Lord Buckethead, but surely any woman must feel appalled that their rights are up for sale to secure her (untenable anyway) position.

I'm in the Midlands and termination in my area is up to 18 weeks.
Oh, bollocks. Termination is legal up to 24 weeks. You don't get 6 weeks chopped off that because you live in the Midlands.

Elendon. What is rubbish?

Alltouchedout it's not bollocks. I'm talking from experience.

I had scan at 20 weeks, baby incompatible with life. Referred to a clinic in London where I had to travel for termination, as my hospital didn't carry out abortions over 18 weeks.

Would you like my travel receipts, medical records and pregnancy notes as proof?

Pair of fucking idiots.

The current limit ONLY JUST allows enough time for a medical abortion to be arranged in time after a shock at the 20-week anomaly scan except if there's a serious issue at the 20 week scan there is no limit and when they stop being able to offer abortions they offer early induction and to let the baby pass away without intervention. And they will offer again and again because the xhikd is "incompatible with life" regardless of actual current up to date survival rates

Twentycups I get where you are coming from. However, aborting a child above 24 weeks just seems unnecessarily cruel unless in extreme circumstances. I don't know why as I'm very pro choice (considering I used to hate the idea) until a friend explain why she had one and then it made sense, my feelings on the subject don't matter but others should be allowed to. I just think that too far is just wrong unless for an extreme reason.

Brit I believe you. My cousin was born at 23+5. In our PCT they resuscitate babies at that gestation but in others they don't.
Amazingly the tiny little baby was breathing when born and was just placed on breathing support to allow the body to concentrate on growing.

Furthermore due to this law, had she been born without breathing, I could not have had a birth certificate if they want to keep the avoetion limit where it is, it needs separating from this issue. A baby born should be helped. Not left because they are 23+5 or they have a genetic issue. By all means ask the laboirong mother but the default should be intervention

I think you should butt out of what other women do with their bodies, personally.

And I think you should butt out of an unborn person's right to life, personally.

Elendon. What is rubbish?

I'm in the Midlands and termination in my area is up to 18 weeks

That's rubbish.

There are much worst things to demonize the DUP/Tories with but this is not it.In fact, only on MN is there a majority support for full term abortion. The stats show that the majority of public are against full term abortions and a sizeable proportion of that majority would support cutting the time limit.

Don't pair of fucking idiots to me.

I had to go to an abortion clinic via Manchester and then to Liverpool and then had to go through a crowd of people saying the Rosary. Did you do this? It was a round trip of 150 miles.

Abortion is not a religious moral issue. It's a necessity of life for many women who are heterosexual. It should be decriminalised, and there should never be two doctors involved in the decision making.

I concur entirely. It should be the woman's choice and the requirement for two doctors to be involved is ridiculous, patronising and patriarchal in my opinion. That this debate has even opened up and fuelled those who are anti choice is incredibly regressive.

I've just explained why about Elendon.

Try reading it.

Surely most late abortions are because a serious problem has been discovered at a scan? Late abortions are necessary because the foetus is non viable or there is a risk the mother will die. A live baby is not a likely outcome even if the pregnancy continues. The fact that some babies born at 23 weeks now survive due to medical advances is irrelevant, there are still many conditions that modern medicine simply cannot fix.

Here's my story for those if you who think the limit should be lowered:

I had a TFMR at 18 weeks. The abnormality was picked up at a scan at 16 weeks, then a couple of weeks to process the shocking news and have medical appointments. I hadn't had a 12 week scan because I hadn't realised I was pregnant (was on the pill and had regular periods throughout) but the abnormality would not have been detectable at 12 weeks anyway, so if things had been done 'normally' it would not have been discovered until the 20 week scan. The baby would not have survived leaving my uterus, there was nothing that could have been done to save it. I was 17 years old and it was the most traumatic event of my life, but having to continue the pregnancy would have been far far worse.

Please remember that abortion is an issue on which there is a free vote - ie there is no party whip to follow, MPs get to vote according to their own personal views. So the working agreement with the DUP makes no difference to the likelihood of any such bill - should it ever make it into Parliament, given how much other legislative business there is to get through - being passed.

There are lots of things to get upset about at the moment, it's not exactly helpful to suggest new things that are incredibly unlikely to come to pass

Against abortions? Don't have one. To oppose abortion is to treat women as incubators.

If people think that getting an abortion in England and Wales is easy, then think again. It's not. But at least it's available.

YABU. Unless there is risk to mother and/or baby, I think 24 weeks is far, far too late and I would be very happy if it was lowered

Pregnancy and birth is always a risk to the woman.

YANBU. It's fucking disgusting to throw women's rights onto the negotiating table.
Re: PPs making a link between late term abortions and premature births. There's no need for this link. Different circumstances, different situations. Also, babies aren't suddenly surviving at 23 weeks. They are being kept alive through extensive use of modern medicine, often with years of treatment and sometimes lifelong medical problems. I don't see how this changes rights to abortion.

MissWilmottsGhost

So she allows a debate. We're having one here. No one's died, there's some very interesting points and a civil conversation, women's rights need talking about as much as possible. How are you going to convince the people who really need teaching about this stuff and their minds broadening if discussion isn't allowed? So the DUP stand up and (possibly) put forward some utterly nutty views. There have to be some sane members of parliament who can be trusted to give them the other side? If not, then let us know the date of the debate and we'll all prime our MPs with information in advance and ensure they've thought about it.

It's so important to change the current belief often put forward by the liberal left refusing to allow things to be said somehow magically makes them go away. It doesn't. It just makes the people who believe them go unchallenged, group together and get resentful at being silenced, and take it out at the ballot box. Hence Trump. Hence Brexit.

It has to be about having and winning the argument, openly, and changing people's minds, not relying on being able to silence people.

The fact that some babies born at 23 weeks now survive due to medical advances is irrelevant, there are still many conditions that modern medicine simply cannot fix there are many conditions that need treating not fixing. Nothing will ever "fix" my son but treatment has kept him alive. There's too much pressure on women to abort because a baby isn't fixable. If they choose an abortion after fair and balanced information fine but incompatible with life is banded around far too easily

making a link between late term abortions and premature births. There's no need for this link I agree but there seemingly is a link because babies before 24 weeks are treated differently or at least can be