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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

TM will allow a debate on restricting abortion to cling on to power.

385 replies

catgirl1976 · 10/06/2017 09:29

AIBU to be disgusted? I'm reading that she will allow a UK debate on abortion limits to secure the DUP's support.

She's a disgrace. I don't care if you voted Tory or Labour or for Lord Buckethead, but surely any woman must feel appalled that their rights are up for sale to secure her (untenable anyway) position.

OP posts:
VestalVirgin · 14/06/2017 15:03

Sorry Quiet, I didn't mean to be aggressive at all. Didn't mean to oppose you or something, just to add to what you wrote.

It just came to mind, reading your post, because illegalizing abortion at a pregnancy stage where, as you pointed out, miscarriage still happens, could mean even women who did not even try to have an abortion, and are already traumatized by the miscarriage, are imprisoned for allegedly having broken the law.

I'd like to think this couldn't happen so easily in the UK, but then, lots of things happened politically in the recent past that one would have thought impossible.

QuietCorday · 14/06/2017 16:31

Vestal ..... ahhhh, I see what you mean now.

I've been a tad concerned for some time that there are "forces" in Britain that are trying to import a US-style abortion debate into the UK. I've also noticed that the British alt-right and MRA movement has developed a particularly hard line.

And it concerns me a lot because I see dodgy statistics and facts, or information from sources with significant bias, starting to filter into the debate in this country.

For example, when I started doing my research into my condition, I contacted a number of US research specialists in the area and they were extremely helpful. But what became apparent was that some of their attitudes were heavily influenced by their religious beliefs to the point where they were advocating clinical measures that, to my mind, were actually cruel in terms of the level of intervention before the baby would inevitably die ... all in the name of avoiding a termination for medical reasons.

And it is these people who are influencing debate on abortion by saying that 22 weekers "survive". Well, erm, no they don't. Maybe one baby out of 100 born at 22 weeks survives with severe disabilities if they are born in a hospital with a very high tech NICU and specialists that have experience with micro-prem babies. That is not a win. And the rest of the babies they attempt to save, but do not make it (the 99%) in such units have a very short life of being isolated in a plastic box where they cannot be touched because their skin is so fragile with tubes and needles stuck in their very delicate limbs.

All in the name of "life is sacred." Well, how many "sacred lives" had to be a sole experience of suffering, just so these people could save the one percent of the babies born in their unit at that gestation?

And when you realise these are some of the dynamics coming into play into the abortion debate, you've got to question just what exactly is going on.

Again, we have 250,000 miscarriages and stillbirths in Britain every year (60,000 more losses than the number of terminations). Where is the debate about those "lost babies"? Who ever talks about that as a "genocide"? No-one, that who. Yet a significant number of those babies could be saved through fairly basic tests, scans or early inductions and ELCS, or just a better flow of medical information and potential procedures from specialist consultants to regional obstetricians. Yet who in the "life is sacred" camp campaigns about that?

So when you stand back and consider the entire picture, it does convince you that the real issue for many anti-abortion activists is women's agency. That's the bit they don't like. Otherwise, they'd all be running marathons to fund ultrasound scanners and miscarriage research programmes, instead of standing outside clinics waving placards.

7461Mary18 · 14/06/2017 16:38

We just don't have enough fundamentalist Chatolics, Protestants or Muslims in the UK who want the abortion laws to change. I really don't think we have anything to worry about. Even our right wing low tax small state people (me) are pretty libertarian and pro choice - letting women choose than than God says this is a real person at conception.

Even so we need to be vigilant. I support English law remaining as it is.

Dragongirl10 · 14/06/2017 18:06

ASSASINATED AND VESTAL.....no need to be vicious just becouse my opinion is different to yours...

I do not condemn anyone for their opinions. But hold firm to mine.

AssassinatedBeauty · 14/06/2017 18:39

How is what I wrote any more or less "vicious" than what you wrote? It's putting across to you what the implications are of your point of view, factually and calmly.

OwlinaTree · 14/06/2017 23:19

Fabulous post quiet, totally agree with the points you raised about the tiny babies suffering and the sweeping under the carpet of the very high number of stillborn babies born in this country.

Really sorry for your losses, hope you get the family you would like soon.

UnbornMortificado · 15/06/2017 10:19

Quiet sorry for what you've been through Flowers

VestalVirgin · 15/06/2017 21:46

ASSASINATED AND VESTAL.....no need to be vicious just becouse my opinion is different to yours...

I will stop being angry at you once you acknowledge that you have no right, no right at all, to force your opinions on other women, that you have no right to use your vote to control other women's bodies.

In a system where you can cheerfully vote away women's rights to bodily autonomy, your opinion is not just an opinion, it is a declared intent to harm women with your vote.

Do you promise to never vote for restrictions on abortion? Then, and only then, will I consider your opinion an opinion to be respected.

I would never force you to have a late abortion, but you do intend to force women to give birth, don't you?

7461Mary18 · 15/06/2017 21:51

I am not anti abortion but there is a good argument that the lesser evil of a dead baby or a woman suffering child birth is the latter. If of course you don't believe abortion is murder or you think the mother's choice comes first then one takes a different view.

It has never been an easy issue and plenty of people hold views on different sides.

Thankfully we are all allowed to write about all our different views as we have freedom of expression even if one side thinks the other is baby murderers who deserve to rot in hell and the other thinks the anti abortionists are wicked people denying women rights to kill babies in utero.

MaidOfStars · 16/06/2017 11:24

I am not anti abortion
Yet....
anti abortionists are wicked people denying women rights to kill babies in utero
Hmm

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