TM will allow a debate on restricting abortion to cling on to power.

[catgirl1976]

AIBU to be disgusted? I'm reading that she will allow a UK debate on abortion limits to secure the DUP's support.

She's a disgrace. I don't care if you voted Tory or Labour or for Lord Buckethead, but surely any woman must feel appalled that their rights are up for sale to secure her (untenable anyway) position.

Amethistle >> How are there options shitty? Have the baby, adopt it, or have an abortion. What other 'non-shitty' options could there possibly be?

I'm not talking about increasing options but you take options away if you introduce or reduce the gestation limit for legal abortion.

Keep the baby - nice if you want it, utter hell if you don't, I would imagine.

Give the baby up for adoption - really, try and convince me that the reality of this isn't horrendous for both mother and baby, not to mention the impact on the others surrounding her. Existing children, partner, family.

Legal Abortion - again not something you add to your bucket list. Particularly late term.

Then you can add some "lovely" options which are sadly real possibilities.

Illegal/self induced abortion - highly risky, traumatic, painful, and if you don't die you have a chance of being prosecuted.

Suicide - hard to believe I'm sure, but some women really will see an unwanted pregnancy as so catastrophic.

Can you really not see that a woman considering abortion is already in a horrible situation that she feels desperate about? I'm not talking about an "oops" unplanned pregnancy which is simply at an inconvenient time, I'm talking about the kinds of situations where women feel that they have no other choice. Late term abortion is already a horrible thing. But reducing women's access to any abortion isn't going to stop their baby resembling their rapist. It's not going to eliminate trauma from the adoption process. It's not going to magically improve the foster care system and enable social workers to see into the future and place babies immediately with a loving family. It's not going to make a baby un-disabled. It's not going to erase a pregnant woman's drug addiction, or her mental or physical health issues, or get her a home and a job. It's not going to bar a violent ex from being able to have any contact.

If you want to reduce abortion you need to eliminate barriers which stop women from feeling able to keep unplanned pregnancies. You need to increase access to birth control (luckily, very good in this country) and you need to accept that even if we get to a point where we have perfect birth control, accessible to everyone all the time, there will always be women who seek abortion, because circumstances change, because male violence exists, because raising a disabled child is astronomically hard.

Flippantly saying oh well she can just have the baby or get it adopted doesn't answer the question of why placing limits on abortion harms desperate women.

The adaptation of The Handmaid's Tale seems more relevant than ever.

I didn't have a great opinion of TM and the Conservatives anyway but the alliance with the DUP is a new low.

The adaptation of The Handmaid's Tale seems more relevant than ever.

I intended to read it or watch the movie when I felt a bit safer and wouldn't have nightmares from it. Seems I won't be able to, after all. This is increasingly becoming a very likely version of what the future could look like!

Forced birthers who say "oh, just give birth and give the baby up for adoption" would feel right at home in that dystopia.

For fuck's sake, adoption isn't an alternative to abortion, you'd have to be fucking naive to believe that, just go and read up on the health risks of pregnancy and birth.

YABU. Unless there is risk to mother and/or baby, I think 24 weeks is far, far too late and I would be very happy if it was lowered.

My baby was born before the legal cut off and was crying as she was born. She didn't even need resuscitating. I'm not sure how many if you realise that they would have had to not treat her (even though she was out of my body) or actively end her life before she was born to comply with a "termination" .
Furthermore due to this law, had she been born without breathing, I could not have had a birth certificate.

I think a lot of people think there should be a re visit of the law.

It doesn't affect delivering baby early due to medical reasons.

Welcome to Ireland, Britain.

Touché user

I think 24 weeks is far, far too late and I would be very happy if it was lowered.

I think you should butt out of what other women do with their bodies, personally. If you think 24 weeks is too late, don't have an abortion at 24 weeks.

apparently a Conservative being interviewed on R4 said it.
This may be a huge shock to you OP but sometimes stuff on the internet is made up or exaggerated .
Just because you read that that someone thinks someone else might "apparently" said something doesn't mean it's true.

This discussion was already on the cards before the election. Nowt to do with the DUP situation.

My niece and nephew were born at 24 weeks 1 day. My sister went into labour at 23 weeks 5 days. They had to delay labour because if they had been born under 24 weeks, they would have been left to die as that health trust aborts upto 24 weeks gestation.

It's a very emotive subject and ideally, I can sit here and say it should be reduced to 12 weeks at most but circumstances need to be taken into account. I'm in the Midlands and termination in my area is up to 18 weeks.

The only time I disagree with termination, is if people are using it as a contraceptive choice.

It's scary the thought of it being banned. Surely it's going to increase back street abortionists and DIY abortions?

exactly Ovaries - terminations post 20 weeks tend to involve the most vulnerable women or those in the most distressing situations - and account for tiniest percentage of total terminations - so best let women remain in control of their bodies!

Fuck me. As someone who has had a termination at 22 weeks I will fight tooth and nail for women who have been through what I've been through to be able to easily access terminations if they want or need them.

Absolutely fucking disgraceful

Abortion is not a political issue. It is between a women and her doctor. Hysteria indeed, the only people getting hysterical are the anti abortionists.

Are terminations in the rest of the UK provided through the NHS? Women here have to go to England and pay privately.

Northern Ireland doesn't allow abortions. Backwards fucking country that it is.

Kay Burley asking the questions we want answers to regarding abortion
here

Can i add something to your list BertieBotts.

You also need to give childfree by choice women sterilisation if they ask for it instead of patting them on the head and telling them they dont know their own minds.

I agree that it isn't the right discussion and vote to be had to strengthen your own party from a political POV.

However there is no reason the debate cannot be had in parliament in the right circumstances with medical experts.

I am completely pro choice.

But I know a baby born at 23 weeks. There is still a postcode lottery on a baby born before 24 weeks with regards to medical treatment due to the 'viability' dates.

What's wrong with having a debate?

But if they lower it, it doesn't lead to more abortions, just more women having to deliver babies that they know are going to die/have already died
Say your 20 week scan is at 20 weeks and 4 days. Problems found, incompatible with life. You take a week to think/cry/process. You're now 21 weeks and 4 days. Wait for an appointment a week - 22 weeks and 4 days. You can see how the time adds up
People who don't find out they're pregnant until 22 weeks then find out the same - they could be at 24 weeks
It's a very very tiny proportion of all terminations and if people are terminating that late, there's a damn good reason

I'm in the Midlands and termination in my area is up to 18 weeks.

Rubbish.

No debate needed.

It's a woman's choice and frankly I think there should be no time limit on when you can have an abortion. If you don't want to be pregnant you should be able to end that pregnancy at any point - it's your body so your choice.

I think it's got fuck all to do with politicians - if they don't agree with abortions that's fine, they don't have to have one.

My sister went into labour at 23 weeks 5 days. They had to delay labour because if they had been born under 24 weeks, they would have been left to die

No. They would have tried to delay labour regardless of the abortion limit. There is no way they wouldn't have tried to delay it even if abortion was only legal up to 20 weeks. They delay to give the baby the best possible chance.

What are we debating?

Abortion is not a religious moral issue. It's a necessity of life for many women who are heterosexual. It should be decriminalised, and there should never be two doctors involved in the decision making.