to leave because DP can't deal with DS' having autism?

[LottieG100]

DS is 7 and has ASD. If we go to a theme park, DP doesn't want to use the fast pass queuing system for disabilities because he feels people will stare. DS cannot cope with queuing, he will flap and pinch himself and usually get too agitated to go on the ride by the time we get there so I'm happy to use the system but DP disagrees.

DS hates to be touched at any time. He also hates being verbally overloaded at any time. If he's having a meltdown, the fastest way for him to feel better is for me to react calmly and reassure that the cause is not a big deal and can be sorted and to come and find me when he's calmed down so we can talk. I then busy myself so the focus isn't on him (as that would make him worse) and nine times out of ten he calms fairly quickly and comes to find me to resolve the problem.

DP has obviously seen me deal with DS in this way hundreds of times. I've also explained that DS cannot cope with talking and touch when already upset yet DP persists in doing things his own way. Yesterday, DS became frantic because his school project he was bringing home got a little wet in the rain. He was flapping, screaming and crying and absolutely hysterical. I was bathing toddler DD so DP was dealing with DS. In the five minutes before I could wrap up DDs bath, DP was talking incessantly:

"Do you want a drink? Calm down you're being too noisy. DS. DS. DS. DS! Let's get a snack. DS! Are you listening? You're being ridiculous. I'm getting fed up now DS. We won't be going out tomorrow if you're being silly. DS. DS. DS!"

DS was becoming increasingly upset every time he spoke and screaming at him to get off him as DP tries to hold his shoulders to get him to be still and listen. DS kept screaming that his project was ruined and another thing DP does that frustrates DS (and me) is ignore the problem and try and distract so DP was replying with "let's get a snack" and "look, there's a dog walking outside."

This trying to distract has NEVER worked and leads to DS being bewildered and frustrated that what he's saying is being ignored and so he gets much more upset. I've explained this to DP but he still does it.

AIBU to think about leaving him over this? I feel like DS is spending a lot more time upset than necessary because DP is too pig headed to do what works and is determined to stick with his own way. He dresses it up that he wants to help DS and doesn't like seeing him upset and so can't just "ignore him like I do."

It's also frustrating because 75% of the time he will leave me to deal with DS, to the point where I've caught him hiding behind a door when DS was building up to a meltdown. So naturally DS usually seeks me out when he's becoming upset. But when DP decides he does want to step in, he will block DS from coming to me which fuels the fire more and he will persist with his 'techniques' then give up after 10-15 minutes and leave DS to come to me. By this point he's a hundred times more upset than he was at the beginning and is then left for me to calm down.

Is he your son's dad? If so he will always be his parent and you both need to find a route through this, whether together or apart.

Is he your son's biological Dad?

He isn't biologically but he has adopted him.

Then he will parent him anyway, won't he, even if you leave him?

The one thing that made me feel uncomfortable in your posts was your statement that he prevents your DS from getting to you. Blocks him? That can't be right, surely? What have you said to him about it?

Any other issues in the relationship?

I think it would help for your DP to have someone other than you to explain it to him.

It's clear he cares but clear he doesn't fully understand what it's like for his son.

Remind him that with autism it isn't about what he thinks works but what the person with a different drain set up can cope with. Remind him being neurodiverse means he won't respond how a neurotypical person would or would expect him to.

Ask him direct questions. Ask him if he can honestly tell you he thinks it's better for his son to be hysterical and self harming (pinching himself) in a queue than it is for some ignorant person to stare. Ask him if he thinks people won't stare at ds in the queue when he's upset.

Show him what it's like to be at the receiving end of his behaviour towards ds. Stand him in front of you and do to him what you showed he did above. Perhaps spontaneously when he has a moan about something.

But yes, if he really cannot understand and his presence causes ds unnecessary stress daily and it's affecting all your lives then you really will need to consider the current set up of you all living under one roof.

I'm so sorry.

Maybe in a quiet, non-stressful moment you should try talking to your DP about what you believe him to be doing: he loves his child, of course he does, but he is parenting the child he wants, not the child he has. So you two need to find a way to remind each other (make it about both of you) what works when DS is struggling.

deckoff

As with everything on Mumsnet, we hear one side of the story. I'm reluctant to say "yes, tear your family unit apart and destroy the life that your DS and DD know." We don't know the whole story and too often on mumsnet there is a "men are shit so just LTB"

It may not be the best parenting but we don't have DH's perspective and perhaps he's really struggling as well. Reading books on ASD and speaking to people does not mean that you're going to be able to just know how to parent a child who is ASD.

I feel for you OP. But I also have some sympathy and compassion for your DH too.

So your DP knew about the condition and made the very committed decision to adopt your son and to commit to all the financial and legal responsibilities. But now you think if you split up, he's just going to walk away from his son and not want to see him again. Are you sure about that? Your prediction doesn't really match the commitment he's shown in his past actions.

It sounds pretty horrendous, OP.

As if the situation isn't bad enough, without someone so fundamental getting it so wrong. Making it worse for your DS, and making it that much harder for you to deal with, too.

Have you told him that this is actual deal-breaker territory for you? That you're considering leaving him?

I'm going to be really blunt here, as I had a DD with ADHD and parenting her through her teenage years was frankly something akin to torture and my DH was very similar in his approach initially.
You need to answer this very honestly - is your DP making your son's life easier or harder? Your son struggles to get through life day to day as it is, and his parents should be offering unconditional love, support and understanding to help him live in a world he doesn't understand. Someone who is determined to act as if they are "normal" isn't doing that, sadly. Is that best for your DS? I feel really sorry for you that you're seemingly doing this alone, it's relentless and you need support too

In which case I offer the following advice.

Grab yourself some counselling. You could do it with a family member but you need someone who can bounce your ideas back at you and examine problems without conclusion or judgement so you can figure out your own conclusions which makes counselling better I would do it with the following aims:
1)To work out how I felt about DP without reference to the kids. Do you still care and love him? If it wasn't for the kids would there still be a relationship with him.
2)What ypur DPs brand of quirks are. What you are automatically smoothing over and sorting out for him. Anything from managing transitions (he wont cope we this do we do it this way) to and seemlessly taking over social interactions (eg responding to the waitress on his behalf, asking for something because he would rather go without than ask himself). Recognising as with a child this varies on stress levels. Yours and his.

3)Recognising the demands on you from child and DP. Can you deal with them all and do you want to. Much will depend on number 1 and if the answer to either of these is no you know you need to leave.
4) If you decide to stay, what help is going to make your life easier? You can't support/care for anyone (let alone everyone) to the degree you do, if your falling apart yourselves.

No judgement here whatever your answers end up being, but do it it the full awareness of what you are doing, how difficult it is and how well you are doing.

It takes some people years to accept and understand their child's disability. Rather than leave I would ask him to attend some support groups - their are some for fathers ( who seem to find it harder in many cases to accept the diagnosis).

Is this the only issue or are there other issues in the marriage?

I would say my ex husband has my daughter for contact and i am not there - it worries me as his management of her is not great and leads to extreme behaviours sometimes. So if there are no other issues in your marriage it is better for you to be around as at least you can support and monitor the interactions.

Leaving him won't stop him seeing your DS though, and while he's with him it'll be the same. Your DH sounds like he needs support.

Have you tried writing it down as a sort of what to do list when there is a problem?
Your DP sounds a bit overwhelmed. Does he accept that his way of doing doesn't work or is he oblivious to that?
The "I love you" thing and not coping sound a bit like my DH who is very likely ASD, I basically have to go ballistic before he will take into account what I say. I would be very brutal with him that he is failing his son and you and needs to start applying your advice right now.

Show him what it's like to be at the receiving end of his behaviour towards ds. Stand him in front of you and do to him what you showed he did above

Do not do this if your child doesn't cope with this what on earth makes you think the adult will?!?!

In autism the fight or flight response when you perceive you are under attack (real perceived or sensory) is far more pronounced. Why we have runners and hitters.

Really irresponsible advice. As ever much better to reflect on behaviour calmly look and the good the bad and the ugly and see how we can do it better.

I don't think he would see DS if we split because he knows he couldn't cope and DS wouldn't want to see him.

If you really think that's true, that's pretty bad and I'd see that as reason to separate. If DS doesn't want to see him then it must be adding a lot to DS's stress levels just to have him around.

Like PPs I relate to a lot of this. My DC don't have ASD diagnoses but have some traits to a milder degree, and there is ASD in ex's family. I have a similar experience to you with my DD in that she will get hysterically upset over little things and the absolute best reaction is to stay calm, let her be alone to calm down and then help her sort it out. And ExP doesn't get it because he is only capable of putting his own feelings and needs first and has no empathy - so he gets cross and makes it all worse.

I left him for many reasons but one was to give my DC a calm home life at least for most of the time. And apart from the struggle of getting used to the initial upheaval and changes, my DD has become much calmer.

As others say I'd have a serious talk with him and explain this isn't working. There are ways to deal with DS's meltdowns that work much better and he is causing misery by not using them. You could both have counselling or help with parenting - would he consider that? (I went on a free council-run course for parents struggling with difficult behaviour re DD, it was so helpful.) Tell him if this isn't solved you will have to consider separation, and ask how he would feel about that and how he'd plan to manage his relationships with the DC.

Show him what it's like to be at the receiving end of his behaviour towards ds. Stand him in front of you and do to him what you showed he did above

Sorry didn't explain fully why it's such a bad idea. If you are in any way lacking theory of mind you wont understand that the person doing it is trying to make you feel how the child felt. You simply won't make that link. You will just see someone you trust attacking you. At best you reduce trust (why is this person is trust doing this to me? Clearly I can't trust them any more) at worse you provoke a fight response.

Agree don't try to do the same to him, he almost certainly won't get it.

I deal with ex by staying calm, only trying to have conversations with him when I am feeling strong and calm, or by email, and spelling everything out carefully. Even then he will not listen or not hear what he doesn't want to, but I get through to him some of the time.

It's possible to have ASD or ASD traits, or simply have a lack of empathy for some other reason (poor parenting or just personality maybe) - and also happen to be difficult in other ways - selfish, aggressive, stubborn etc.

I spent a long time trying to tease out what was "wrong" with exP and/or if he was just a selfish, stubborn, passive aggressive arse. But it's really hard to untangle. And maybe it's complex and there are multiple things going on. Ultimately it may not be possible to get to the bottom of it but you still have to try to find a way of communicating with the person that works as well as possible.

You'd think it would obvious to not touch DS and not get cross because it makes things worse. But when my ex got stressed and found something difficult, all sense went out of the window. And I often wondered if he would deliberately (maybe not consciously) do whatever created the most drama and anger in those around him, as a way of kicking back.

it sounds like you're at ultimatum stage. either he takes on board how to deal with ds or it's over. it sounds like he's wilfully making things worse. if he realises what's at stake will he step up?

It's not about ' it takes time 'bless them'

It's about people's coping strategies and how different people cope and deal with situations.

For some reason ( In my experience) many fathers in particular ( some mothers too) find it difficult to come to terms or accept the difficulties, hoping that professionals are wrong and difficulties can be overcome.

Vilifying them doesn't help anyone - child or father, support and helping them to face and cope with their denial will.

On here it always gets turned to man v woman - what should be focussed on here is how to help the child and how educate and support the father to be a better father.

... and if you do suspect your husband is autistic definitely do not do what people are suggesting - you've said you don't like it being done to your child, why think it's ok to do it to an autistic adult??

deck

We aren't going to agree. I don't think anything is as black and white as you seem to think it is.