AIBU in thinking JC should resign?

[QuiteLikely5]

He's made a mockery of the Labour Party and won votes by creating a manifesto that the country could not afford to deliver!!!

Resign JC !!!

Just wait til they push us of the Security council after Brexit....

Oh and when the Queen dies just so you know the Commonwealth was always going to stick it to us finally......

Politically in 7 years the Tories have left us friendless. If you don't think that has more if an impact on our economy than tax rises to the rich...well I'm not adult enough to help

Politically in 7 years the Tories have left us friendless.

It's true.

Aligning with Trump is no answer.....he is not in it for anyone but Trump.

I guess we will always have Saudi and Turkey. And we can bend over for the pleasure

Did you also know that Theresa May sells armsto the Saudis, who sell them to Isis? who then do terror attacks in Britain? and May said its to keep the streetsof Britain safe, how does that work then?

I'm with you make. People need to do their research and actually read about Labour economic policy vs Conservative economic policy. There is still this massive myth that Labour = bad and Conservative = good without considering all the facts.

www.primeeconomics.org/articles/taq30tk04ljnvpyfos059pp0w7gnpe

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/13/the-conservatives-have-been-the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/

I agree that trickle down economics doesn't work nor does austerity and if we see the newspapers today, it looks like May is now abandoning that policy.

Dan above was banging on about Healy and the IMF however nobody ever mentions the MASSIVE luck that the Conservatives had in the 80's and 90's when they had £18bn a year in oil revenue which was squandered on tax cuts for the rich and a massive welfare bill (it increased from £23bn under Labour to £37bn under the Conservatives (at one point) and both the 1st Thatcher term and John Major's whole tenure showed that under both these PM's, welfare spending increased at a greater speed than any other PM in history.

Plus interest rates were at record levels reaching 15% in the 80's whilst unemployment was at nearly 4m.

Plus, the Conservative party have been the ones who have steadily increased indirect taxation and VAT in particular:

from 8% to a whopping 15% in 1979
from 15% to 17.5% in 1991
from 17.5% to 20% in 2011

VAT revenues are massive and there is a move away from direct taxation to indirect taxation for most of government's revenue. In addition, VAT is a regressive tax as it disproportionately hits the poorest in society more.

It's a complete myth that the Tories are the party of low taxation and good fiscal policy.

Hahaha one reference to something unpleasant that doesn't fit your rose tinted vision of a fiscal incompetent and it's "banging on"? Wow you Corbyn fangirls are touchy!

Do you know why and how he ended up cap in hand grovelling? Government borrow and spend, and unions of dinosaurs running Britain. That's how.

Why on earth would 'they' push us off UNSC because of Brexit?

We're P5 in our own right (and have been since before even Benelux existed)

Now, I do think that there are various structures in UN that need sweeping reform (or even tear up the whole shebang and start from scratch), but Brexit isn't going to be any sort of driver for that.

Dan I voted against Corbyn

Tax rises aren't necessarily Corbynite and the manifesto was quite a lot to the right of Atlee's. But OK rose tinted it is to want a fairer society

PS we don't have any friends to help us with you know the Macro economic side of things

Sigh

Brexit will have a DIRECT impact and already has on our standing in the world stage. Whilst we are still one of the biggest arms sellers in the world (and that's the reason we are on the SC let's face it) when we slip out of the G8 why would they keep.us on....Brexit was always so much more than bloody borders

Why do you think the experts told us not to do it?

Then in about 2000/2001, brown started spending. And spending. And spending. As a consequence of which, when we should have been able to weather the storms in 2008, we weren't in great shape

Actually we were in pretty great shape just before the economic storm, and I don't remember the Tories saying at the time anything about debt levels . The main criticism is that debt wasn't reduced enough I think. We were however stupid enough to plump for austerity afterwards which is why we haven't fully recovered.

I've done a lot of reading into economics because I couldn't fathom why the Tories were seen as economically fantastic but thought I'd check to see if I was voting in a foolish manner.

And I still can't fathom why.

Experts in the military and intelligence fields were not anti-Brexit, because all the important sharing in this fields occurs in fora other than EU.

And UN P5 are the (original) nuclear powers, and it's nothing to do with arms sales. Nor membership of other bodies (such as G8 or whatever) that post-dated it. And it remains because MAD will never entirely go away.

UN reform is pretty thorny, rarely gains any momentum at all, and really wonmt get any because of Brexit.

Do you know why and how he ended up cap in hand grovelling? Government borrow and spend, and unions of dinosaurs running Britain. That's how

Would you like to explainthe shit storm of black Wednesday in the early 1990s?

😕

Oh dear Dan, sorry you didn't like the word banging on, I'll try not to use it again.

The IMF thing gets dragged out again and again (I'm just waiting for somebody to mention Gordon Brown and gold and then I'll have my bingo card filled) so I just chose to provide some facts about beloved Thatcher and the fiscal history of the Conservative party However, interesting that you chose the IMF example as it demonstrated that Labour are more fiscally conservative. Healey has been credited with saving the country from fiscal crisis and is called the "king of austerity". He was able to find cuts because we had assets (nationalised industries) and a manufacturing economy unlike the situation now where we own nothing and make nothing.

On a final note about the IMF, The Treasury got the figures completely wrong and it overestimated the extent of the borrowing required by a massive amount. So much so that Healey actually didn't need to go to the IMF. Treasury estimated it as £10.5bn and it was actually $8.5bn. Healey asked for $3.9bn and didn't even use it all.

Dan and Dan et al
Do please carry on citing old fashioned, neoliberal discredited fiscal policies, banging on about the "socialist" 70s and using phrases like "cap in hand grovelling" "union of dinosaurs running Britain" "Corbyn fan girls" like a bunch of grumpy old men after too many pints down the bowling club.
It is this sort of patronising lack of insight into and empathy with, the issues affecting young people and a lot of other voters too (such as austerity, public service cuts, lack of housing) that have, and will continue to mobilise even more people towards labour.

Getahaircut I have siblings who work in the city. Both in very high positions.

Dandan sorry mate, you lost all credibility when you blamed Labour for the pre 2010 fiscal damage.

what was that note Liam Bryne from Labour left when the coalition came into Government:

"I'm afraid there is no money left"

And will mobilise them straight back again when "LABOUR ISN'T WORKING".

Dawn - "mate" - that's because they caused it.

Oh dear! And you claim to work in the city!

Dan, to put it more in your (Tory) terms:

You know your Uncle Eddie? He thinks he is old and wise but keeps losing at the track? Lectures everybody at dinner about frugality, then runs up a big tab and slips out without paying his share, so it comes out of the server's pay?

That's Tory economic theory.

The suggestion that raising the tax threshold helps the low paid is actually a canard - I pay tax @ 40% an increase in the threshold of £1000 gives me £400 compared to the £200 it gives to a 20% tax payer.

Was there not some problem with banks requiring a bailout from the government? Dan

Labour caused the global financial crisis?

Fuck me they were busy

Thiscantreallybehappening and the one from Reggie Maudling apologising for the mess they'd left the Treasury in

Oh. Wait. He was a Conservative...

Well, not always. I work abroad a lot too. Lots of people in the city do, you know.

Actually, I suspect that you don't.

Frankie - if it's an even rise, eg the 1% that the LDs proposed. But if it's only on money earned above a set figure, eg 40% on money above 80k becomes 50% on money above 80k, then it's not going to affect someone paying 20%.